--- Log opened Thu Sep 02 00:41:09 2010
00:41 -!- fmibot [~fmibot@static.225.178.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #freemyipod-support
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17:18 -!- michael__ [5d6836cb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.104.54.203] has joined #freemyipod-support
17:19 < michael__> hi just tried to install iloader along your guide. ipod hangs now on a dark screen with a slight apple visible. pls help
17:19 < michael__> it is a nano 2g 8gb
17:20 < TheSeven> this happened when rebooting after running ipodpatcher?
17:20 < michael__> yes. after disconnecting it stayed in this stage. I can enter apple diag menu.
17:20 < michael__> but nothing else
17:21 < TheSeven> you should be able to enter disk mode, too
17:21 < michael__> what is combination for disk mode?
17:21 < TheSeven> select+play
17:22 < michael__> yes works
17:22 < TheSeven> hmm weird
17:22 < michael__> maybe I used the very long *.ipodx file. 
17:23 < TheSeven> if it locks up with the apple logo on the screen and backlight off, this probably means it decrypted the firmware successfully (and checked its signature), but for some reason the boot stub doesn't get far enough to even initialize the display
17:24 < michael__> how do I delete it in disk mode to try it again?
17:24 < TheSeven> retrying probably won't help
17:24 < TheSeven> this is most likely a bug on my side somewhere
17:25 < michael__> ok. sad. how do I delete the loader from the ipod?
17:25 < michael__> do you need more information for your development? Before I undo it ;)
17:25 < TheSeven> either remove it using ipodpatcher, or restore using itunes (while being in disk mode)
17:26 < michael__> what would be the command for ipodpatcher?
17:26 < TheSeven> hmm i hope it's sufficient information that it fails when booting though the apple bootloader
17:26 < TheSeven> i must admit i haven't tested that exact binary using the apple bootloader, only using embios execfirmware...
17:26 * TheSeven doesn't want to restore his ipod either :)
17:27 < TheSeven> see ipodpatcher --help for command line options
17:27 < TheSeven> it might just be ipodpatcher -d
17:28 < TheSeven> but i'm not sure if that works
17:28 < michael__> yes -d worked. apple says hallo ::)
17:29 < michael__> hmm. I try it again. now I know how to undo it.
17:31 < TheSeven> hm, it boots fine though execfirmware
17:31 < michael__> ok tried it again. right after safe disconnect in winxp it jumps to the dark apple and stays like this.
17:33 < TheSeven> apparently there's something wrong with the encryption
17:35 < michael__> ok. deleted it again. apple is up and running again.
17:35 < TheSeven> let me examine some things
17:35 < michael__> ok
17:36 < TheSeven> if we're lucky, i might get this sorted out in a few minutes
17:36 < michael__> what is the difference between the bin and the ipodx file?
17:36 < michael__> maybe try it with the bin?
17:37 < TheSeven> the bin is the unencrypted one
17:37 < TheSeven> the apple bootloader won't accept it
17:46 < TheSeven> michael__: could you try re-downloading http://the-seven.tk/download/ipod/iloader/ipodnano2g-installer0.2.0-iloader0.2.0-uninstaller0.2.0-embios0.1.0-embiosldr0.1.0-20100829.ipodx and checking if it works now?
17:46 < michael__> ok. wait
17:46 < TheSeven> this apparently was a really silly bug in the encryption code
17:49 < michael__> does not work. but different behaviour. the screen goes off and on with the dark apple. app. every 5 sec
17:49 < michael__> oh. I see a logo!!!
17:49 < TheSeven> huh?
17:49 < michael__> installing!
17:50 < michael__> iloader installation approaching
17:50 < TheSeven> what did you mean with "the screen goes off and on with the dark apple. app. every 5 sec"? how often did it do that?
17:50 < TheSeven> s/often/many times/
17:51 < michael__> hard to say. 10-20 times. dark apple, then short blank, then again dark apple.
17:51 < michael__> then suddenly iloader appeared
17:51 < TheSeven> so apparently the installer crashed like 20 times but the 21st time it worked? now that's weird...
17:51 < michael__> (nice apple sign in loader btw :) )
17:52 * TheSeven calls that a crapple :)
17:52 < michael__> so everything works. can start apple fw from iloader. 
17:52 < TheSeven> did it go straight through the installation or ask you some things?
17:53 < michael__> yes after I said "see logo" it started the installation with one question if I wanted to keep apple.
17:53 < TheSeven> did you keep the firmware partition?
17:53 < michael__> yes.
17:54 < michael__> works. all files still there (started random play)
17:54 < TheSeven> hm, ok, so you could try uninstalling and reinstalling it again, to see if those weird reboots happen again
17:55 < michael__> you need the info? ok wait...
17:55 < TheSeven> just remove the iloader folder and unplug it
17:55 < TheSeven> it will probably immediately launch the installer again after the uninstall completes
17:56 < michael__> ok deleted the folder. apple still up. 
17:56 < TheSeven> then just forcibly reset it
17:57 < michael__> I did. now it shows "could not load..." with some options
17:57 < TheSeven> ok
17:57 < TheSeven> choose "uninstall iloader"
17:57 < michael__> ok
17:57 < michael__> flashing
17:58 < michael__> uninstall successfully rebooting
17:58 < TheSeven> it'll probably drop right into the installer when it's done
17:58 < TheSeven> (with 5 seconds of apple logo in between)
17:58 < michael__> ah the dark apple flashes are there again
17:58 < michael__> and there is the iloader install screen
17:58 < TheSeven> now that's funny.
17:59 < michael__> flashes again
17:59 < TheSeven> btw, removing the firmware partition doesn't mean removing the apple firmware
17:59 < michael__> hm. ok. but it will delete all files?
18:00 < TheSeven> it usually shouldn't
18:00 < michael__> bootloader installed. successfully booted apple.
18:00 < TheSeven> only if there would be something wrong with your file system or a bug somewhere
18:00 < michael__> random play works too.
18:00 < TheSeven> it just means that you'll have to delete all files if you want to uninstall it again :)
18:01 < TheSeven> (because that will require restoring using itunes once the firmware partition was removed)
18:01 < michael__> ok. well. i have iloader and apple working. will install rockbox now. I am happy!
18:01 * TheSeven is still puzzled by those crashes
18:02 < michael__> :)
18:02 < michael__> looks like "trying" something several times before it works
18:02 < TheSeven> yep, but why?
18:02 < TheSeven> if you want to, you could try updating iloader (to the same version)
18:02 < michael__> well this is out of my universe
18:03 < michael__> with the bin right?
18:03 < TheSeven> just download the installer.bin and update.cfg file to the iloader folder and choose update from the advanced options in the iloader boot menu
18:03 < TheSeven> i'd guess that this *will* work the first time, for whatever reason
18:04 < michael__> ok wait
18:04 < TheSeven> it should just boot the installer again (from the .bin file)
18:05 < TheSeven> it should *not* flash a white screen and go back to the iloader menu directly
18:07 < michael__> I rebooted. show a screen of iloader but without lights.
18:07 < michael__> flashing and updating seems to work without lights.
18:08 < TheSeven> the backlight was on during the intial installation, but not when updating?
18:08 < michael__> yes
18:08 < TheSeven> but it *did* enter the installer and show the "flashing" bar?
18:08 < TheSeven> (it will be rather quick when updating)
18:09 < michael__> hmm somethin is wrong. the backlight is off always in iloader now. it goes on during apple start
18:09 < TheSeven> what the hell
18:09 < michael__> yes it installed (quickly)
18:10 < michael__> can I delete installer.bin and update.cfg
18:10 < michael__> ?
18:11 < TheSeven> yes
18:11 < TheSeven> those backlight issues are weird
18:11 < TheSeven> my backlight is working perfectly during the update
18:11 < TheSeven> it's just dimming briefly while the installer boots up
18:12 < michael__> hmm. the backlight is off now allways in iloader. was on before updating. 
18:12 < TheSeven> even after rebooting from the apple firmware?
18:12 < michael__> yes. it is dark now.
18:13 < michael__> it goes on during the screen "booting apple"
18:13 < TheSeven> hmm. smells like i2c trouble.
18:13 < TheSeven> does the backlight work properly in rockbox?
18:14 < michael__> wait. need to install rockbox first
18:14 < TheSeven> if it's also failing there, your ipod probably doesn't like the slightly out-of-spec i2c clocking (~450kHz) that we use
18:16 < michael__> first rockbox boot. hmm. takes a while
18:16 < michael__> for what is the right key in iloader? what to load with it?
18:16 < michael__> rockbox seems to hang.
18:17 < TheSeven> it will just drop into the embios console, where you can see error messages that turned up during boot etc.
18:17 < TheSeven> (mainly intended for developers)
18:17 < TheSeven> if you have anything else to boot with it, feel free to change the theme (iloader.cfg) to do that
18:18 < TheSeven> this will require some basic programming knowledge though :)
18:18 < michael__> I hit it accidently and said "device terminated by user" or similar.
18:18 < TheSeven> yep
18:18 < michael__> ok
18:18 < TheSeven> it's waiting for you to tell it what to do (via USB)
18:18 < TheSeven> just reset it :)
18:19 < michael__> so. rockbox does not start ;( hangs on the boot screen.
18:19 < michael__> or it really take some time for first start.
18:21 < michael__> another thing. after puting update files into the iloader folder it directly started into advanced menu. this was the first time when backlight was off. so even before updating.
18:22 < TheSeven> hm, that shouldn't happen
18:22 < TheSeven> the advanced menu can only be reached by pressing the menu button in the "clickwheel" menu
18:23 < TheSeven> rockbox should usually boot within 1-3 seconds
18:23 < michael__> ok maybe i hit it accidently. but the light whre off the first time there.
18:23 < TheSeven> so apparently there's something funky going on with your ipod
18:23 < michael__> rockbox hangs on boot menu. tried it 3 times
18:23 < TheSeven> from what I can tell, it has trouble talking to the power management chip
18:24 < michael__> maybe. I thought all devices are the same?
18:24 * TheSeven wonders how it manages to power up the flash chip though
18:30 < michael__> hmm. just tried to do again an update. did not work
18:30 < michael__> hangs after pressing update
18:33 < TheSeven> with the backlight dimmed?
18:33 < michael__> ok. did it again. update ok. still no backlight.
18:34 < michael__> damn. rockbox does not start. this is why I did all this.
18:34 < TheSeven> let me try some things
18:37 -!- michael___ [5d6836cb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.104.54.203] has joined #freemyipod-support
18:37 < michael__> its me. need to change pc
18:38 < michael__> talk to the new michael now
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18:39 < TheSeven> can you try updating to http://files.freemyipod.org/installer-nano2g.bin?
18:40 < TheSeven> hmm, wait
18:40 < TheSeven> apparently not everything was rebuilt correctly
18:40 < michael___> do I need also need a new cfg file?
18:40 < TheSeven> no
18:40 < TheSeven> but i'll have to change the bin again
18:40 < TheSeven> this one is bad
18:42 < michael___> ok. tell me then.
18:42 < TheSeven> http://files.freemyipod.org/installer.bin
18:44 < TheSeven> if that one works better, it's an i2c issue for sure
18:46 < michael___> flashing done. backlight still off
18:47 < TheSeven> try resetting it forcibly
18:47 < michael___> rockbox hangs
18:47 < TheSeven> still no backlight?
18:48 < TheSeven> but it works in the apple firmware?
18:48 < michael___> apple starts BUT no backlight in apple now!!
18:48 < TheSeven> seems like your PMU is going nuts
18:49 < michael___> what is PMU?
18:49 < TheSeven> power management unit
18:49 < michael___> battery?
18:50 < michael___> oh. backlight is on now!! just forced boot in apple!
18:50 < TheSeven> the chip containing the voltage regulators, backlight drivers, real time clock and (unused) charger circuitry
18:50 < TheSeven> and battery gauge of course
18:51 < michael___> iloader looks better now. rb still hangs
18:51 < TheSeven> enter disk mode (center button) through iloader
18:52 < TheSeven> is the backlight being dimmed when doing that?
18:52 < michael___> funny after entering appel and rebooting everything is black again.
18:54 < TheSeven> do you feel like installing some tools to track this down?
18:54 < michael___> hmm. ipod behaves strange.
18:54 < TheSeven> those tools being python, pyusb, libusb and a winusb driver
18:55 < TheSeven> this would allow you to send embios commands from the pc to manually access the backlight
18:56 < michael___> in general yes. but i need to do some work now. lets do this next week. 
18:56 < michael___> or how long do we need for that? and does it work with win7?
18:58 < michael___> strange. after booting apple and entering standyby, ipod does not wake up.
18:58 < michael___> but after this happens and forcing reboot, iloader has lights!
18:59 < TheSeven> you should probably uninstall iloader now and check if any weirdnesses remain
18:59 < TheSeven> enter disk mode, run ipodpatcher -d and remove the iloader folder, than choose uninstall iloader
19:00 < michael___> to answer your question before, light is on in disk mode. although nothing else is apearing (white screen with backlight)
19:00 < TheSeven> urgh
19:00 < TheSeven> your ipod is really weird.
19:01 < michael___> so needed to reforce boot from disk mode (hang). after reboot lights still on but disk mode does not work.
19:03 < TheSeven> does the apple firmware still work?
19:03 < TheSeven> if yes, use that to run ipodpatcher -d and remove the iloader folder
19:05 < michael___> it does not recognize the ipod anymore.
19:08 < TheSeven> so you can see files on it but ipodpatcher doesn't get it?
19:08 < TheSeven> then just delete the iloader folder, uninstall iloader, and once it starts flashing hold center+play until you end up in disk mode
19:08 < michael___> no. apple was on, hangning and pc did not recognize the ipod. 
19:08 < TheSeven> then run ipodpatcher -d and unplug it
19:09 < TheSeven> oh damn
19:09 < TheSeven> seems like the backlight is on, but the flash off now
19:09 < michael___> now i reboot but it hangs now on the iloader start screen (embios loader...) with lights but nothing else.
19:09 < TheSeven> which embios loader revision is that?
19:09 < TheSeven> r182:186M?
19:09 < michael___> 0.1.0
19:10 < michael___> 182m
19:10 < TheSeven> ok, so the one with the i2c patch applied
19:10 < TheSeven> try resetting it again
19:11 < michael___> ok i am in loader again. disk mode does not work.blank screen and pc does not recognize.
19:15 < TheSeven> why does iloader manage to access the flash, while disk mode doesn't?
19:15 * TheSeven doubts the root cause of this problem is in disk mode
19:17 < michael___> ok have file access. deleted iloader folder and did -d. disconnect now?
19:17 < TheSeven> yep
19:18 < michael___> apple is on. force reboot
19:18 < TheSeven> hm, it should reboot automatically
19:18 < michael___> hangs on em
19:18 < TheSeven> reset it again
19:18 < michael___> another reset, hang
19:18 < TheSeven> there seems to be some randomness in the behavior
19:19 < TheSeven> try resetting and immediately switching the hold switch on afterwards
19:20 < michael___> what should happen?
19:20 < TheSeven> it should say "entered recovery mode" or something similar
19:20 < TheSeven> the switch needs to be on *before* the embios loader screen comes up to do that
19:20 < michael___> did nothing. hang. but after releasing hold I see the could not load....
19:21 < TheSeven> ok
19:21 < TheSeven> now choose uninstall
19:21 < michael___> yes flashing
19:21 < michael___> success
19:21 < TheSeven> phew, hopefully all the trouble should be gone now
19:21 < michael___> looks good. apple is there again.
19:21 < michael___> puh
19:22 < michael___> what is ctcp?
19:23 < michael___> was interesting. when iloader had light it was off in apple and vice versa.
19:23 * TheSeven has no idea how that should be related
19:43 < TheSeven> michael___: iloader created a file called norflash.bak during installation. do you still have that?
20:13 < michael___> where was ist savedß
20:19 < michael___> sorry. too late. deleted everything
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21:03 < michael___> hey TheSeven: didi another try. iloader installed fin - in colour. but hangs on rockbox.
21:04 < michael___> deleted everything. used rockbox utility. now rockbox works without issues.
21:05 < michael___> give me a mail address and i will send you the norflash file from last installation
21:09 < michael___> bye
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--- Log closed Fri Sep 03 02:20:31 2010