--- Log opened Mon Sep 20 01:41:22 2010
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22:25 < Binavik> Does anyone know what time TheSeven comes online?
22:33 < Farthen> Binavik: if you have a question please ask
22:34 < Farthen> other than that he is pretty busy at the moment
22:36 < Binavik> TheSeven wanted to know some things about my iPod so he could tell my why emBIOS failed to stop the FTL from corrupting. He asked me to go here on the iLoader:Talk page.
22:36 < Farthen> ah, ok
22:38 < Farthen> i told him to come around but i don't know when this will happen
22:38 < Binavik> ok thanks.
22:48 -!- TheSeven [5f70885c@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has joined #freemyipod-support
22:49 < TheSeven> Binavik: hey
22:49 < TheSeven> so what exactly did happen to you?
22:49 < Binavik> TheSeven: hey
22:49 < TheSeven> I have no explanation for the wakeup problem (how did you even know it woke up, if it managed to completely kill the battery?)
22:50 < TheSeven> but if it would have been stuck in iloader, that couldn't have caused FTL corruption
22:50 < TheSeven> so either the apple firmware (rather unlikely) or rockbox must have been running at that time
22:50 < Binavik> When the batter died it kept trying to turn on and boot iLoader
22:50 < TheSeven> are you using the fastboot theme?
22:50 < Binavik> No
22:51 < Binavik> The iPod kept shutting down at the white screen before the actaull iloader theme comes up
22:51 < TheSeven> after you supplied it with power again, it booted up, repaired the ftl (successfully?) and then complained about a missing theme?
22:52 < Binavik> No it tried to repair the ftl and couldn't
22:52 < TheSeven> aha
22:52 < TheSeven> does it say why?
22:52 < Binavik> it just said it failed to fix the ftl
22:52 < TheSeven> at which stage of the process did it give up?
22:52 < TheSeven> so what was the last thing it was doing before it said it failed?
22:53 < Binavik> it was trying to load the iloader screen on an almost dead battery
22:53 < Binavik> it kept shutting off right before iloader asks me to pick rockbox or apple
22:53 < Binavik> on that white screen
22:53 < Binavik> and even after it shut off all it did was try to boot up again
22:54 < TheSeven> did it try to fix up the ftl with an almost-empty battery?
22:55 < Binavik> yes a few times
22:55 < Binavik> then i charged it and it couldn't fix the ftl
22:55 < TheSeven> hmm well that explains the problem
22:55 < TheSeven> i should probably prevent it from entering the ftl recovery code if the battery is low
22:56 < Binavik> that would be cool
22:56 * TheSeven didn't think of that nasty corner case
22:56 < TheSeven> so how is it behaving right now?
22:56 < TheSeven> did you already try running disk mode to fix it?
22:56 < Binavik> i got it fixed
22:57 < Binavik> unistalled iloader and put in the rockbox bootloader
22:57 < TheSeven> huh?
22:57 < TheSeven> if iloader can uninstall, it should have worked in the first place
22:57 < TheSeven> did you need to restore using itunes to uninstall it?
22:57 < TheSeven> if yes, disk mode probably wiped the ftl
22:58 < Binavik> it wouldn't let me load up the boot menu when the battery was low
22:58 < Binavik> after a charging it a little the ftl was messed up
22:58 < Binavik> and all i could do was enter disk mode
22:58 < Binavik> all of the files were still there
22:58 < TheSeven> hm, but after that, it still didn't boot to the menu?
22:58 < Binavik> yes
22:59 < Binavik> even with a charged battery
22:59 < TheSeven> did it still try to repair the ftl?
22:59 < TheSeven> or just complain about a bad theme?
22:59 < Binavik> i rebooted it multiple times and each time it tried to repair the ftl but couldn;t
22:59 < Binavik> couldn't*
22:59 < TheSeven> even after running disk mode?
22:59 < Binavik> yes
22:59 < TheSeven> wow that's nasty
23:01 < TheSeven> one should probably wipe it completely to prevent further trouble
23:01 < TheSeven> on the other hand, iloader usually wouldn't detect residual damage that disk mode didn't
23:01 < Binavik> the restore with itunes and iloader uninstaller were fine
23:02 < TheSeven> so i can't quite see why iloader/embios would keep trying to recover it even after disk mode shut down successfully
23:03 < Binavik> do you think you can make it so that iloader/embios won't boot unless someone resets the ipod with menu+select
23:13 < TheSeven> Binavik: I don't quite understand what you mean
23:14 < Binavik> The old versions of iloader wouldn't boot unless someone resets the ipod
23:14 < Binavik> this version will boot iloader if the ipod is inactive for a while
23:14 < TheSeven> huh?
23:15 < TheSeven> iloader will boot, when the ipod is booted.
23:15 < TheSeven> so if you shut down rockbox, and press a button again, iloader will boot.
23:15 < TheSeven> what exactly do you want to change?
23:15 < Binavik> but when you load apple os and put it into sleep mode it boots iloader
23:15 < TheSeven> aha? funny
23:16 < Binavik> i want to know if its possible to stop that from happeneing
23:16 < TheSeven> it usually doesn't
23:16 < Binavik> happening*
23:16 < TheSeven> you're talking about the really-old iloader?
23:16 < TheSeven> (pre-0.1.x, nand-based)
23:16 < Binavik> no the current one did that to mine
23:16 < TheSeven> no, i mean which one *didn't* do it?
23:17 < Binavik> pre-0.1.x, nand-based
23:17 < TheSeven> does it also reboot to iloader if you wake it up only a few seconds after it went to sleep, or only if some minutes have passed since then?
23:17 < Binavik> only after some minutes have passes
23:17 < Binavik> passed*
23:17 < TheSeven> aha, that's why i didn't ever see it during testing
23:18 < TheSeven> this is evidence that it's hibernating after some minutes
23:18 < TheSeven> making it wake up properly from hibernation probably isn't going to be very easy
23:18 < Binavik> yeah i see that
23:21 < TheSeven> if the firmware deals with most of that itself, it might be doable though
23:21 < TheSeven> however, this will probably need to be done from within embios loader
23:22 < TheSeven> and this is a component that i don't like to touch at all, as there is a bricking risk if it is bad
23:23 < TheSeven> especially, if norloader thinks it's waking up from hibernation, but there is no valid image, your ipod would be dead, at least until the battery has run down
23:23 < TheSeven> s/norloader/embios loader/
23:23 < TheSeven> so we would need to find a bullet-proof way to detect if it's indeed waking up or if it was resetted, and if the image is valid
23:23 < Binavik> how?
23:24 < TheSeven> no idea
23:24 < TheSeven> might be some GPIO, NVRAM bit, magic SDRAM value, or just reading out if the SDRAM is already powered on boot
23:25 < TheSeven> anyway, doing this will heavily increase the complexity of that loader, and a bug in that loader can easily lead to bricked devices
23:26 < Binavik> so until we find a bullet proof way to do this, i suggest dropping the idea
23:27 < TheSeven> there will always be unexpected corner cases like the dead battery vs. ftl recovery one you just hit
23:27 < TheSeven> this luckily was a rather highlevel one
23:28 < TheSeven> if such a thing happens in embios loader, the results can be way worse
23:29 < Binavik> the way I see it is that we can only tackle the problems when they come up. I don't see any way of predicting any more corner cases
23:31 < TheSeven> the problem is that bugs in that area can permanently damage devices
23:32 < TheSeven> while your problem was resolvable, a potential problem introduced by hibernation support can be fatal to the device
23:33 < TheSeven> one can hope that most of them could potentially be fixed by letting the battery drain (which could still take months if it is in a low power mode, which hopefully won't happen), but one can't be sure
23:33 < Binavik> i guess its best to stay safe and not implement hibernation support
23:37 < TheSeven> if you want to implement and test it, go ahead
23:37 < Binavik> nahh im alright
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23:37 < TheSeven> but this won't be released until it's really well-tested
--- Log closed Tue Sep 21 00:00:47 2010