--- Log opened Sun Mar 13 00:02:12 2011 00:41 -!- sinless [3cba91a2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.60.186.145.162] has joined #freemyipod-support 00:44 < sinless> hello 00:44 < sinless> theseven..? 00:45 < TheSeven> yea? 00:45 < sinless> surely,the HDD driver caused the long sunpip time.. 00:46 < sinless> I roll back to old version,HDD load very quickly 00:46 < TheSeven> hm, but I have no explanation why 00:46 < sinless> Did you use the driver hacked from apple's firmware to support ce-ata devices? 00:47 < TheSeven> i'm using emcore's driver 00:47 < TheSeven> is the spinup time slow in embios/emcore as well? 00:47 < TheSeven> (roughly the time from white screen with emcore version to boot menu) 00:47 < sinless> sorry but I don't know how to test in emcore 00:48 < sinless> but in rockbox this long time is very unpleasant... 00:49 < TheSeven> how long is it in rockbox? how long in emcore/embios? 00:50 < sinless> the new version rockbox at least need 2.7 seconds,compared to the old one,0~0.04SECONDs... 00:50 < TheSeven> 40 microseconds? i seriously doubt that this is possible at all 00:50 < sinless> ssd... 00:50 < TheSeven> er, wait, milliseconds :) 00:50 < TheSeven> that could be possible, but that's really damn fast 00:50 < sinless> rockbox shows 40ms 00:51 < TheSeven> how does embios behaveß 00:51 < sinless> I don't know how to test it with embios.. 00:51 < TheSeven> s/ß/?/ 00:51 < TheSeven> [01:47] (roughly the time from white screen with emcore version to boot menu) 00:51 < sinless> oh,the time from boot to embios menu? 00:51 < TheSeven> this isn't accurate as it isn't only spinning up during that phase, but we should be able to tell if embios is affected as well from that 00:52 < sinless> the problem seems in rockbox 00:52 < sinless> just by change rockbox.ipod can solve... 00:52 < TheSeven> after powering on, you will briefly see a white screen with an "embios loader" message, then this will get replaced with an "embios" message (which is usually shown for ~2 seconds on a hdd-based ipod), and then the iloader menu 00:53 < TheSeven> the question is, if that white "embios" screen stays there for less than half a second, or like 3 seconds 00:53 < sinless> 3 00:53 < TheSeven> ok, so embios/emcore has the same issue 00:53 < TheSeven> that will ease debugging it a lot 00:54 < TheSeven> so this is a CF card? or a "real" 1.8" ssd? 00:54 < TheSeven> anyway, it is PATA and not MMC? 00:54 < sinless> but just by use the old rockbox.ipod can get 40ms...very strange 00:54 < sinless> please wait,I will check 00:54 < TheSeven> yes, the older rockbox versions use a completely different hdd driver, while the newer ones use mine from emcore 01:00 < sinless> it should be a real ssf 01:00 < sinless> ssd 01:00 < sinless> pata/32g/udma4 01:05 < sinless> here is the offical detail page..http://www.kingspec.com/solid-state-disk-products/ssd-18zif-mlcj.htm 01:07 < sinless> and here,the module,http://www.kingspec.com.cn/products/ssd_modulezifide_mlcj.htm,I took apart the ssd and only install the module to classic,with this I can install a extra battery 01:07 < TheSeven> hm, i seriously doubt that those 40ms have ever been true 01:08 < TheSeven> the powerup process alone waits for about 300 milliseconds before starting to interrogate the device 01:09 < sinless> Surely ture....just by change songs can test:) 01:10 < sinless> when i choose a song from different albums,old version load very quickly just like a nand flash machine,the new version take more than 3 seconds to change 01:11 < TheSeven> is it really a spinup problem or are all disk accesses slow even if the ssd is already powered? 01:12 < sinless> spinup time only 01:12 < sinless> when copy data with computer,~25MB/S 01:14 < sinless> the problem is the long unpleasant time...a HDD only costs ~2400ms,I tested it with MK8022GAA just now, the same problem,old version around 2400ms, new version at least 2700 01:15 < TheSeven> yeah, an increase in that order of magnitude might be explainable 01:15 < TheSeven> but not a two second increase 01:16 < sinless> but this problem can only be seen by us SSD/CF users... 01:19 < sinless> maybe like APPLE OS, new driver have set a spinup time to protect the HDD.. 01:19 < TheSeven> ok, i think i know what might be going on 01:19 < TheSeven> there are two subtle differences between the drivers: 01:20 < TheSeven> - the new one re-requests the drive IDENTIFY data after each powerup, the only one only after the first one 01:21 < TheSeven> - the new one waits for the drive to be "not busy" before requesting IDENTIFY, the old one waits for "ready" instead 01:21 < sinless> Hoping to get new update soon:) 01:21 < TheSeven> so apparently the SSD is either delaying the IDENTIFY response for about two seconds for whatever reason 01:22 < TheSeven> or maybe it's keeping "busy" high during the first few seconds 01:23 < TheSeven> hm, the second possibility can't be true, because "not busy" is a precondition for "ready" 01:24 < TheSeven> so it must be that the SSD is delaing the identify response 01:25 < TheSeven> delaying* 01:25 < sinless> and the new version always got panic...classic's development is surely slow:(...maybe because the dual-boot still not ready,and for that only you and your team working on this..Oh,the test result is the same on ipod video 01:25 < sinless> ipod 5g,SSD 0~40ms,HDD 2398ms 01:26 < TheSeven> on the nano2g there wasn't much assistance from other people either, even though there was dualboot from the beginning 01:26 < TheSeven> and what kind of panics are you talking about? 01:26 < sinless> data abort 01:27 < sinless> the new version show that every 20~40 minutes... 01:27 < sinless> when playing songs 01:27 < TheSeven> can you send me the full information the next time that happens? 01:27 < TheSeven> (including the exact rockbox version) 01:28 < sinless> OK....and this requires me to update to new version... 01:28 < sinless> is it possible the panic also caused by ssd... 01:29 < TheSeven> that would be rather unlikely 01:30 < TheSeven> so are you saying that the panics only occur with the new HDD driver? 01:30 < TheSeven> that would indeed be weird 01:30 < sinless> it can work normally with apple os ,but the spinup time in apple os is more longer.. 01:30 < sinless> no,the old building sometimes also has a lot of panic 01:32 < TheSeven> for now i'd suggest to just reverse-merge r29448 to bypass the spinup problem 01:33 < TheSeven> and in the long term we might implement caching of the identify info 01:33 < TheSeven> however i won't have time for that during the next two weeks 01:34 < sinless> wait...do you mean reverse-merge r29448 can solve spinup time?..that would be very good... 01:36 < [Saint]> hahahaha...that first site you linked has the same blurb for every drive they offer ;) 01:36 < [Saint]> "One of the best performance SSD in the world, fast write speed and read speed, free noise,perfect stability and durability and compatibility." 01:36 < [Saint]> they think very highly of themselves. 01:37 < [Saint]> What are the chances this is some dodgy, weird ssd? 01:37 < sinless> yes...I buy that ssd only because cheap.. 01:37 < [Saint]> I think you got your moneys worth... 01:37 < sinless> 32G,4 intel flash,just RMB 350 01:38 < sinless> In china a 8GB usb drive also need RMB 90.. 01:39 < [Saint]> yes, and China is also famous for cheap/fake CF/battery/NAND/etc. 01:39 < sinless> ture... 01:40 < sinless> a 32g cf,on some web pages,RMB 120..just $20... 01:40 < sinless> So,for USB devices, i prefer DIY:) 01:41 < sinless> Oh,The seven,Sorry for my poor English,you will reverse-merge r29448 now or after two weeks? 01:42 < TheSeven> no, i won't reverse-merge that on trunk 01:43 < TheSeven> i prefer supporting ce-ata over fixing a performance problem with a very rare configuration 01:43 < TheSeven> so you'd have to do that yourself 01:44 < sinless> ...I don't do programming...then i will roll back to the old building.... 01:45 < [Saint]> it's hardly programming...all the work is done basically, it's essientially using your preferred editor and cutting and pasting if svn can't figure it out for itself (which is unlikely) 01:47 < [Saint]> recompile, boom, done. 01:47 < TheSeven> i think this particular commit should merge just fine 01:48 < sinless> but...I know nothing about compile.. 01:50 < sinless> follow this? http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/ManualHowto 01:52 < [Saint]> what OS? 01:53 < [Saint]> your options basically consist of a unix-like environment, or a VM in Windows. 01:54 < [Saint]> Or CygWIn in wondows...but, if you don't use CygWin for anything else, don't put yourself through the stress. 01:54 < [Saint]> *windows too 01:55 < sinless> .... 01:55 < sinless> so,maybe keep use old build is the better choice 01:56 < [Saint]> For you, probably yes. 01:57 < sinless> once I using DEVCON to make a DFU tool for onda players using source code from Rockbox's site 01:57 < sinless> Is it easy to compile the whole rockbox..? 01:58 < [Saint]> um...."DEVCON" is the Rockbox Developers Conference. 01:58 < [Saint]> it's an event, not a tool. 02:02 -!- sinless [3cba91a2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.60.186.145.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:20 -!- sinless [dcb82027@gateway/web/freenode/ip.220.184.32.39] has joined #freemyipod-support 02:22 < sinless> yeah i found a more easy way...just put two rockbox.ipod into classic,and two build can change very easy on ipod.. 02:22 < [Saint]> that doesn't "fix" anything though. 02:23 < [Saint]> either way, you either have a build that doesn't work, or can't use recent code. 02:23 -!- liar [~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at] has joined #freemyipod-support 02:30 -!- sinless [dcb82027@gateway/web/freenode/ip.220.184.32.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:40 -!- TheSeven [~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:45 -!- TheSeven [~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has joined #freemyipod-support 04:06 -!- [Saint] [S_a_i_n_t@203.184.0.12] has quit [Disconnected by services] 04:06 -!- S_a_i_n_t [S_a_i_n_t@203.184.3.218] has joined #freemyipod-support 04:10 -!- S_a_i_n_t [S_a_i_n_t@203.184.3.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:14 -!- [Saint] [S_a_i_n_t@203.184.3.218] has joined #freemyipod-support 05:29 -!- [Saint] [S_a_i_n_t@203.184.3.218] has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:29 -!- S_a_i_n_t [S_a_i_n_t@203.184.2.24] has joined #freemyipod-support 05:33 -!- S_a_i_n_t [S_a_i_n_t@203.184.2.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:37 -!- [Saint] [S_a_i_n_t@203.184.2.24] has joined #freemyipod-support 08:36 -!- DoomedTX [add81c9b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.216.28.155] has joined #freemyipod-support 08:38 < DoomedTX> Hi, I asked on the wiki and thought I'd ask here too: On my iPod Classic 160GB there is no iLoader directory or iLoader.cfg file. That means the uninstall instructions don't work for me because I don't have access to the iLoader.cfg file to delete it. Where should I look and what other info is needed to answer the question? 11:32 < TheSeven> huh? 11:33 < TheSeven> DoomedTX: well, if it's not there, you don't need to delete it? 11:33 < TheSeven> i.e. you have already deleted it? 11:33 < TheSeven> or is iloader still finding its config file? 11:56 -!- benedikt93 [~benedikt9@unaffiliated/benedikt93] has joined #freemyipod-support 14:11 -!- user890104 [~Venci@6bez10.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:20 -!- sinless [dcb8209b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.220.184.32.155] has joined #freemyipod-support 14:21 < sinless> hello,I tested 9 ipod classic(every model) about the spinup time... 14:21 < sinless> and now 1G 160G works well 14:23 < sinless> the average spinup time is around 1800ms,classic 1g 80g 1680 160g 1850 2g 120g 1860 3g 160g 1820 14:26 < sinless> maybe my 2800ms mk8022gaa result caused by the broken HDD,only 2.2G can be used..The HDD driver now support 1g 160G well,but my ssd 3g,one ssd 1g,and two CF devices all got ~2800ms,Hope to get fix:) 14:37 -!- user890104 [~Venci@6bez10.info] has joined #freemyipod-support 15:06 -!- sinless [dcb8209b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.220.184.32.155] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:54 -!- user890104 [~Venci@6bez10.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:43 -!- [Saint] [S_a_i_n_t@203.184.2.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:49 -!- user890104 [~Venci@6bez10.info] has joined #freemyipod-support 18:07 -!- liar [~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:08 -!- liar [~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at] has joined #freemyipod-support 21:24 -!- benedikt93 [~benedikt9@unaffiliated/benedikt93] has quit [Quit: The quality of my life is going straight up now that i have a shotgun.] 21:52 -!- kamach [5bd5bb3f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.213.187.63] has joined #freemyipod-support 21:57 -!- kamach [5bd5bb3f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.213.187.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:29 -!- [Saint] [S_a_i_n_t@203.184.0.30] has joined #freemyipod-support --- Log closed Mon Mar 14 00:19:20 2011