--- Log opened Sun Jun 19 01:14:43 2011
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01:15 < MonolithNZ> Hey there guys
01:16 < MonolithNZ> I'm having some trouble with the themes I've installed on the 6th gen
01:17 < MonolithNZ> On the now playing screen, using this theme for example: http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?themeid=1068&target=ipodvideo
01:18 < MonolithNZ> The now playing screen only displays The artist, bit rate etc
01:18 < MonolithNZ> There is no album art, and things are a bit out of place 
01:19 < MonolithNZ> I assume it's due to the fact that this theme was designed for the Ipod video, and not the 6th gen?
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05:52 < MonolithNZ> Hey [Saint] , are you there?
06:09 < [Saint]> I am, yes.
06:10 < MonolithNZ> Oh great
06:10 < MonolithNZ> I'm having an issue with loading the Apple OS 
06:10 < [Saint]> That's because it doesn't exist ;)
06:11 < [Saint]> emCORE installation completely kills it.
06:11 < MonolithNZ> Ohh
06:11 < MonolithNZ> Bugger
06:11 < MonolithNZ> Manual says otherwise but I guess it's outdated
06:11 < [Saint]> There's no dual-boot for the Classic.
06:11 < MonolithNZ> Ah I see. 
06:12 < MonolithNZ> Not a problem, I won't be going to back to the Apple OS anytime soon :)
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09:55 < Dhnz> So iv just followed the tut and ipod classic wont usb mount
09:56 < [Saint]> Please be more specific, so I can actually help you.
09:56 < [Saint]> What part are you stuck on?
09:56 < Dhnz> Iv got as far as putting the extracted rockbox zip in the ipod
09:57 < Dhnz> I have a removable drive but it has nothing mounted 
09:58 < [Saint]> Does it have a volume label?
09:58 < Dhnz> no
09:59 < Dhnz> Does the ipod have ssh or some form of access of the like?
09:59 < [Saint]> No.
10:00 < Dhnz> The ipod has the usb pic on screen. But my disk management goes not responding
10:00 < [Saint]> USb failing to mount (or, taking an incredibly long time to mount) is a known issue...that, afaik, no one knows the exact cause of yet.
10:00 < [Saint]> It should be listed in the known issues section.
10:00 < Dhnz> Is there a fix?
10:01 < Dhnz> or a workaround?
10:02 < [Saint]> Not that I'm aware of, you'd have to have some patience and wait around for TheSeven to pop in.
10:03 < Dhnz> the ipod is locked in the usb pic... assuming a lockup?
10:04 < Dhnz> rebooting to see if its able to mount this time around
10:04 < [Saint]> as far as I'm aware the problem lies in the OS
10:04 < [Saint]> No idea how it's being triggered though.
10:05 < Dhnz> So im assuming the ipod isnt mounting the /dev to where ever ipods mount the usb to?
10:06 < Dhnz> Would reinstalling make a difference?
10:07 < [Saint]> No.
10:07 < [Saint]> Using another OS likely would.
10:07 < [Saint]> what OS *is* this, out of curiosity.
10:07 < [Saint]> +?
10:08 < Dhnz> on the ipod or my pc?
10:08 < [Saint]> your PC...I know what's on your iPod.
10:08 < Dhnz> win7
10:08 < Dhnz> what version of linux do you support?
10:10 < [Saint]> You're past the installation point, so I don't think it matters. I actually expected you to say you were running some form of linux distro, iirc the majority of USB mount failures are happening there.
10:10 < Dhnz> Oh right.
10:11 < Dhnz> I was hoping that a linux VM could have helped
10:11 < [Saint]> It may well.
10:11 < [Saint]> It certainly can't hurt.
10:11 < Dhnz> is there a way to revert back to apple crap and retry the install process?
10:12 < Dhnz> scratch that
10:12 < Dhnz> it mounted
10:13 < [Saint]> Excellent. Did it mount immediately, or did it take <some_period_of_time> to do so?
10:13 < [Saint]> http://www.freemyipod.org/wiki/EmCORE_Uninstallation <-- Uninstallation instructions, fwiw.
10:13 < Dhnz> about 5 min to mount
10:14 < Dhnz> in windows tho.
10:15 < Dhnz> Sweet as. Thats cool. Thanks for the help mate :D
10:18 < [Saint]> If you can hang around and idle, it might be useful if TheSeven can contact you to try to attempt to debug this issue some more. I'm not aware of how understood it is. If you can't, I'm sure the world won't come to a crashing halt either ;)
10:22 < Dhnz> Is there a rough idea on how long till hes up? Cos im about to go to bed. I can pm him.. Ill be on tomoro anyway
10:23 < [Saint]> If I'm correct, it's approximately midday there. But, it's the weekend also...possible better to pop in at some stage tomorrow if you can't wait around.
10:24 < Dhnz> Yea ill do that :P 
10:24 < Dhnz> have you guys got a forum up on site? Or looking into the idea?
10:26 < [Saint]> Other than IRC, there just the discussion section in the freemyipod/emCORE wiki :http://www.freemyipod.org/wiki/Talk:EmCORE
10:26 < [Saint]> but, here is the best bet.
10:27 < Dhnz> Havent looked into a forum for easier troubleshooting and for ease of workarounds? 
10:28 < Dhnz> Anyway ill be back on tomoro. Catch ya later. And thanks :D
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10:34 < TheSeven> hm, it's hard to distinguish EHCI issues from synopsysotg issues
10:35 < TheSeven> the latter should be fixed by these "usbfixcandidate" files, that might be worth a try
10:35 < TheSeven> and the EHCI issues are supposed to only hit linux
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15:35 < neferty> hello there. i have a classic (6g,v1, 80GB) that i haven't touched in the last year because its HDD is somehow broken? i have successfully installed emCORE and rockbox on it, it successfully boots, everything is fine. however, the ipod shows the same symptoms as with the official hardware. after copying a bit more than 3gbytes on it, it basically stops copying. after connecting it to the pc via usb it takes up a few minutes for the PC to actua
15:35 < neferty> lly get it "working" (it recognizes it, but it's doing nothing i think). getting directory listings/writing files to it is dead slow/nearly impossible. when i try to update the rockbox database, it crashes and i have to force a reboot. my question is, is it possible to somehow identify the HDD faliure with emCORE/emBOOT/rockbox and see if it's repairable (eg. dead blocks or i don't know, sorry i don't know a lot about hard drives)
15:35 < neferty> woah that was a lenghty message
15:36 < neferty> s/hardware/firmware/
15:43 < TheSeven> neferty: yeah, sounds like bad sectors
15:43 < TheSeven> the HDD will usually remap those internally, so that one seems to be out of spare sectors already
15:43 < neferty> TheSeven, means i have 77 gbytes of bad sectors ?
15:44 < TheSeven> no, it means that the first visible bad sector is at ~3gb and the software is too dumb to work around that
15:45 < neferty> anything i can do about it ? :\ it's really unusable like this, and if it hits the point, i have to format the HDD (that fixes the "slow performance" problem and i can access the HDD normally again until i hit that 3GB again)
15:45 < TheSeven> if you know the exact sector numbers of the failing sectors you might either flag them as bad in the FAT or map them out at the firmware level
15:46 < TheSeven> i have a tool that scans the drive for bad sectors and maps those out, but depending on the severity of damage that might run for like a week
15:46 < neferty> i'd be happy to sacrifice a few gigabytes to get it working again..., i don't really care if i don't flag exactly the failing sectors
15:47 < TheSeven> and it isn't exactly tested well, there was at least one report of it not actually mapping out anything, making the whole run worthless, while it did seem to work for me
15:47 < neferty> and does it display the progress? eg. can i see if it won't be doing anytihng productive?
15:47 < neferty> anyway, i say, let's give it a try, it's not like i have to lose anything
15:47 < TheSeven> yes it does
15:48 < neferty> by the way i'm really thankful for your help :)  i didn't expect to get my ipod working ever again
15:48 < TheSeven> but in that case it was claimed that it actually identified all the bad sectors, but then failed to write the bad sector table once it finished the scan, forgetting all the numbers again
15:49 < neferty> i'm all ready to test it :)
15:49  * TheSeven has an ipod with a very similar problem, just that the first bad sector is sector 37, and another few thousand of them in the first 25% of the drive, so that it couldn't even be formatted with FAT any more
15:49 < TheSeven> that's why i wrote that firmware-level remapping thing :)
15:50 < TheSeven> http://files.freemyipod.org/tmp/hddscan2.ubi
15:50 < TheSeven> drop that into umsboot
15:50 < neferty> and i can start it from emBOOT right ?
15:50 < TheSeven> (go to tools, umsboot and then copy that file into the drive that connects to the pc, then safely eject and unplug it)
15:54 < neferty> okay, it's started
15:54 < neferty> TheSeven, the thing is, like i said, it wasn't used in the past one year or so
15:54 < neferty> the battery wasn't charged, it's around ~50% now, while this is running, can i plug it into my PC for charging ?
15:55 < TheSeven> yeah#
15:55 < neferty> oh, it already says Paused (low battery)
15:55 < TheSeven> nice to see that this works :)
15:55  * TheSeven never tested it
15:56 < neferty> okay, Pause message disappeared, it seems like it's going on
15:56 < TheSeven> just plug it into some USB power source (PC or just a power supply doesn't matter)
15:56 < neferty> almost 20M blocks... 12k tested so far, but i guess that's not a surprise
15:57 < TheSeven> it should get to ~700k blocks rather fast, and then seem to get stuck there for some time, if the damage is around 3GB
15:57 < neferty> alright thanks for this, i'll wait for a while and see how it goes, i'll report back with the results, and again, i'm really helpful
15:57 < neferty> well actually...
15:58 < neferty> i took that from Processing sector: x of 20M
15:58 < neferty> but x seems to be rather random
15:58 < neferty> or i don't know what i'm supposed to read from there
15:58 < TheSeven> no, it jumps a bit back and forth all the time, but slowly progress until 20M over time
15:58  * [Saint] wonders what emBOOT is
15:59 < TheSeven> probably the emcore boot menu :)
15:59 < [Saint]> I figured it was some typefail, then I saw it twice...and thought "Hmmmm, there's something inthe source I missed?"
16:00 < neferty> well, i read that on the site, i figured that was its name ?
16:00 < [Saint]> where did you read that? It should e corrected.
16:00 < [Saint]> *be
16:01 < neferty> uhm, i don't know, sorry
16:01  * [Saint] calls BS then ;)
16:02 < [Saint]> (In case it's not obvious, I'm kidding around...I'm more then happy to believe there's some form of grammatical error in the site and/or wiki)
16:04 < [Saint]> ...confusing emBIOS perhaps? <shrug>
16:04 < neferty> oh, might be, sorry :S
16:04 < neferty> i'm really new to this linux on ipod wizardry :P
16:04 < [Saint]> No worries. Just thought that if there was something that did say emBOOT, I'd like to know where.
16:06 < TheSeven> eh, it isn't exactly linux either :)
16:07 < neferty> it isn't ?
16:07 < [Saint]> Nope ;)
16:08 < neferty> did you guys write some kind of own kernel/bootloader ? :o
16:09 < [Saint]> I wouldn't mind knowing why people come to that conclusion about freemyipod/Rockbox actually. Is it "everything opensource == Linux"?
16:09 < [Saint]> neferty: TheSeven pretty much wrote the entirety of emCORE from scratch
16:09 < TheSeven> and rockbox isn't based on linux either
16:09 < [Saint]> little bits of this & that pillaged and re-written from hither and thither.
16:10 < neferty> no, of course not GNU/BSD also exists, haha, seriously speaking though, i was cleaning my desk today and i found my disassembled ipod, i was wondering if the ipodlinux project's already figured out how to get it working on 6G, well, the project and the website's just as dead as a year ago, and i started googling around for other alternatives, and that's how i found this
16:11 < neferty> and yes i know that rockbox isn't based on linux
16:12 < neferty> i would've donated my 6g to ipodlinux if it was still alive and if i didn't find you guys today :p
16:14 < neferty> hmm, if it goes on the current rate, it'd finish running in ~45 hours
16:14 < [Saint]> It could take up to a week or so.
16:14 < [Saint]> the current rate of progression isn't really any indicator.
16:15 < neferty> > if it goes on the current rate
16:15 < neferty> ;)
16:15 < TheSeven> as soon as it hits damaged areas the rate will drop massively
16:16 < TheSeven> this HDD is known to lock up when hitting bad sectors, taking more than 30 seconds to recover from one single failed read attempt
16:16 < TheSeven> in some areas it was even worse, and that recovery time was like 10 minutes per read attempt (possibly due to damaged servo information?)
16:16 < neferty> it says READ OK sectors about equal the number of already scanned sectors, the WRITE OK seems to be jumping around between 0-20k
16:17 < TheSeven> i ended up making the code power-cycle the drive if it fails to respond for a minute, even though this might cause additional mechanical damage due to an emergency retract caused by it
16:17 < TheSeven> you'll notice that as a very loud click coming from the drive and some counter increasing
16:18 < TheSeven> WRITE OK are basically sectors that have been written without the drive reporting an error, but not read back yet
16:18 < TheSeven> once they're read successfully, they'll move over to READ OK
16:18 < neferty> i don't even care if it damages some extra sectors as long as i'm able to use at least 80% of the drive 
16:19 < TheSeven> it's reading/writing several thousand sectors linearly before looking back to circumvent the drive's caching
16:19 < TheSeven> this drives ignores all those cache disabling and flushing commands apparently, causing it to not report some errors at all, and some others at wrong sector numbers
16:20 < TheSeven> for example, if a write fails, it will log an error ~30 sectors (varying a bit) later, on a sector that's actually intact
16:20 < TheSeven> this makes determining the damaged regions a rather complicated task, and that's why it needs multiple scans, causing that very long running time of the scan
16:21 < TheSeven> neferty: retracts will sadly stress the heads and related mechanics most, not the platters
16:22 < [Saint]> a sad fact of life is that disks just aren't designed to spin-up for ~7 days solid.
16:23 < [Saint]> ...it can't really make anything any worse then it is presently, though.
16:23 < TheSeven> that power cycle numer i mentioned is the "Hard resets needed" counter btw
16:31 < neferty> TheSeven, back when i said it was at some sector and you said it should get to 700k "very quickly", what exactly did you mean by very quickly ?
16:32 < TheSeven> a lot faster than in the following area
16:32 < TheSeven> maybe like an hour until it reaches that point, but I don't have reliable data on that
16:34 < neferty> hmm it got to 270k in like 30 minutes
16:34 < TheSeven> sounds ok
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17:45 < neferty> TheSeven, bingo
17:45 < neferty> it's at 740k, getting read errors and yes, it slowed down an awful lot
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21:55 < neferty> TheSeven: i have an aftermarket usb wall socket charger, it didn't work before with my ipod with the stock firmware. it still wouldn't work right ?
21:55 < neferty> i can leave on my pc but i don't really want to
21:56 < TheSeven> as long as it isn't one of those crap ones that can barely handle ~200mA it should work fine
21:56 < neferty> hmm... let's hope it does, did you see my messages from earlier though ?
21:57 < TheSeven> the ipod will be using 300-400mA during the scan, which is well within USB's limits, and even if the battery should discharge during the process because the adapter can't handle it, the scan will suspend at some point, dropping consumption below 100mA and allowing the battery to recharge
21:57 < TheSeven> yeah, saw your messages
21:58 < TheSeven> and emCORE (which is the kernel that's currently running on your ipod, hosting the scanner app) won't give a damn about apple's charger authentication crap
21:59 < TheSeven> if there's power on the bus, it will use it, no matter what the data lines are doing
21:59 < TheSeven> this is not entirely true for rockbox though, which does some amount of negotiation
22:01 < neferty> i just checked it, it says 300+-50mA
22:03 < neferty> also a question: when i start rockbox from emCORE, does emCORE still act as a kernel? or does it fully transfer control to rockbox?
22:05 < TheSeven> the latter
22:14 < TheSeven> one can roughly say that everything besides rockbox (installer, boot menu, some tools, ...) is running on emCORE on this device
22:15 < TheSeven> rockbox has its own kernel, which is more optimized for audio playback, while emCORE aims to be a general-purpose kernel
22:16 < neferty> i see, really good work on it. props to you man. you have my respect for this :)
22:16 < TheSeven> they share some bits of code though (the FAT32 driver, some hardware drivers which have compatible interfaces, and some other minor things)
22:17 < neferty> i see you're a rockbox developer too?
22:17 < TheSeven> yeah, i'm basically the nano2g/classic maintainer :)
22:18 < neferty> oh i see, if that's the case, the rockbox wiki page says that it's "unusable" on the classic, i wouldn't say it's unusable. and i also read that the CPU's clock is fixed now? is it possible to somehow hack it into autoscaling? or does it render the device unstable ?
22:20 < TheSeven> rockbox has pretty clear definitions of "unusable" vs. "unstable" vs. "stable", and this port doesn't meet all of the "unstable" criteria yet
22:20 < TheSeven> you can enable CPU clock scaling, but it didn't seem to work well and didn't conserve much power
22:21 < TheSeven> just undervolting the CPU seems to work better for now, but is causing stability issues on some devices
22:22 < neferty> hmm, i see, that's too bad. i only tested it for 10 minutes or so. i crashed it once by attemping to change themes, but that's not so bad in my opinion. everything else seemed to work
22:22 < TheSeven> as apple is doing neither of those and still using less than half the amount of power that we need, I'm assuming that we've either missed some more advanced sleep states, or are doing something utterly wrong in the clock/power management setup code
22:23 < TheSeven> currently it seems to just lock up for no apparent reason every couple of hours
22:23 < neferty> well, apple's firmware uses the media chip for decoding music/videos
22:23 < neferty> is it debuggable over usb?
22:23 < TheSeven> I don't think they do hardware decoding for the audio part
22:24 < TheSeven> there might be some h.264 accelerator core that we haven't found yet, but audio playback certainly isn't the problem here
22:24 < TheSeven> sitting in the main menu vs. playing music is like a 10% power consumption difference currently, and that's probably coming from the headphone amplifiers
22:24 < TheSeven> (and a tiny bit of CPU load for decoding of course)
22:25 < neferty> really? well i remember it lasted over 15 hours or so back on stock firmware while listening to music (not so sure on that though, rough esimations, vague memories)
22:25 < TheSeven> should be 25-30h if you aren't skipping around much and the battery is in good shape
22:26 < neferty> might have been :p like i said, i can only remember that it lasted REALLY long
22:27 < neferty> alright, last question for today, then i'm gonna hit the sack. what are the chances that the hardware decoder will be ever put in use ?
22:28 < TheSeven> that depends on whether rockbox will support mpeg4 one day
22:28 < TheSeven> and whether we happen to find some datasheet for a similar decoder core
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22:28 < TheSeven> but as i said, this is only relevant for video anyway, which isn't something rockbox is particularly good at anyway
22:30 < neferty> the only feature i'll ever miss from the stock firmware :( anyway, once again, thanks for all your help, i'll report back with results tomorrow
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23:15 < Dhnz> Hey [Saint], my ipod classic mounts straight away on my linux server
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--- Log closed Mon Jun 20 01:11:40 2011