--- Log opened Thu Dec 01 00:02:28 2011
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04:46 < binavik> hi all, can someone help me install emcore on my ipod nano 2g. I follow the iloader instructions, replacing iloader's .ipodx file with emcores, but after I eject the iPod, all i see is a white screen with the words "emCORE v0.2.2 r708" at the top.
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19:33 < mic_> well i dont yet know enough about the emcore program ...but has anyone found out yet why battery life is so short..why cpu voltage cant be alterred live
19:34 < [7]> clock/voltage scaling didn't help the battery runtime much and caused even more instability
19:34 < [7]> and apple isn't doing it either
19:34 < [7]> so there must be something different
19:34 < mic_> my mp3 cd player runs for 80 hours one 2AAs it uses 1G ram to save spinning up cd
19:35 < mic_> could hardrive spin time be a factor?
19:35 < [7]> no, it definitely isn't the HDD
19:35 < mic_> ie use ram instead of hardrive?
19:35 < [7]> rockbox has been doing this for years
19:35 < mic_> ok
19:36 < [7]> the drive will spin up once or twice an hour, depending on the bitrate of your music
19:37 < mic_> rockbox has been overusing cpu?
19:38 < [7]> emcore without any apps running, just idling all the time (and having the CPU sleeping >99.9% of the time) still uses more than 1.5 times as much power as apple playing music
19:39 < mic_> emcore sits in utility ram? does apple use this for anything
19:39 < [7]> what is "utility ram"?
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19:40 < mic_> i mean the space where emcore is loaded to
19:40 < mic_> how is battery useage with only emcore loaded
19:41 < [7]> well, all software runs from RAM
19:42 < mic_> why is the battery so small in size in ipod classic is there enough space to put a larger one in? 
19:42 < [7]> and as I just told you, [20:38:29] <[7]> emcore without any apps running, just idling all the time (and having the CPU sleeping >99.9% of the time) still uses more than 1.5 times as much power as apple playing music
19:42 < mic_> oh sorry understood with rockbox tired...
19:44 < mic_> how many are working on this battery issue?
19:44 < [7]> i don't think anybody is
19:45 < [7]> I did some quick checks for the most likely causes, but didn't find anything promising
19:46 < mic_> what are the chances this is a piece of apple hardware reducing battery life specifically to put people off rockboxing? devious
19:46 < [7]> i wouldn't expect that
19:47 < [7]> it's most likely just some power saving feature of them that we haven't understood yet
19:47 < mic_> ok good
19:48 < mic_> how did you build up to working on something this complex reading the thesis from france just now
19:50 < mic_> ok so when voltage is reduced how can one test how the instabilities come about?
19:51 < [7]> heh these documents are really ridiculous... put together by some students who were never really involved with the project
19:51 < [7]> we suspect that the instabilities might be coming from glitches during the transition between the different voltages and frequencies
19:52 < mic_> how complex is the software that controls these...many variable alternatives possible?
19:53 < [7]> well we can configure the voltage in 0.025V steps and the frequency can be controlled through the PLL divider/multiplier factors
19:54 < [7]> the clocks are generated from a single 12MHz source that's processed by some PLLs
19:54 < mic_> so where you suspect the bottleneck is?
19:54 < [7]> i have no idea
19:55 < [7]> possibly some deeper sleep states of the SoC that we haven't discovered yert
19:55 < [7]> yet*
19:55 < [7]> figuring out what exactly is going on is pretty much impossible as there is absolutely no documentation on that chip
19:56 < mic_> is the frequency calculated or just read out of a table
19:57 < [7]> I think when we tried it we just hardwired the divider/multiplier values into the code
19:58 < mic_> has anyone made live voltage measurements while apple code was running? 
20:02 < mic_> heading your way next week 10-12th..schorndorf let me know if there is a freemypod gluhwein session
20:04 < [7]> no, we haven't done any measurements
20:04 < [7]> I neither have spare ipod boards for that nor the neccessary equipment
20:04 < [7]> accessing these tiny components isn't really easy
20:05 < mic_> wow there are a lot of chips in the damn thing!! all heating my pocket!!
20:06 < mic_> on a sliding scale how optimized is the emcore code?
20:07 < [7]> optimized in terms of what?
20:15 < mic_> how close is it to unbottlenecked machine code?
20:16 < [7]> well, if there are lots of threads, our kernel won't act very efficiently
20:16 < [7]> but it should be very efficient in terms of idle CPU load (it's tickless and can sleep for several seconds at once if there is nothing to do)
20:17 < Poodlemastah> Is there a video DSP chip in the classic?
20:18 < [7]> no dedicated chip, possibly some core on the SoC though
20:19 < Poodlemastah> "H.264 video, up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second" seems a bit too much for the arm core?
20:20 < [7]> well it's a 216MHz ARM926ej-s core
20:21 < [7]> could possibly work without hardware acceleration... possibly there's a hardware scaler though
20:32 < Poodlemastah> What is a "CalmADM2E"?
20:37 < Poodlemastah> Oh google is your friend, it's a DSP chip.
20:46 < Poodlemastah> Couldn't the CalmRISC and the CalmADM2E be likely causes for the battery drain?
21:09 < [7]> i don't think it's even present on the newer generations
21:09 < [7]> that one probably only exists on the nano2g, if on any model at all
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--- Log closed Fri Dec 02 00:02:31 2011