[01:33:20] <TheSeven> hahaha
[01:35:18] <TheSeven> user890104: 0x2000-0x7fff area is unused by the apple firmware, and will probably not be wiped by apple's installer
[01:35:37] <TheSeven> it's typically all-0xff on a stock firmware device
[01:35:52] <TheSeven> hm.... that might explain part of the problem with detecting whether emcore is already installed
[01:36:55] <TheSeven> to power it down, you can either do that menu+select+hold trick (works fairly well if you figured out the timing), or just boot emcore through something and power it off through a USB command
[03:58:09] *** Joins: nortunyu (~mm@69-196-129-24.dsl.teksavvy.com)
[03:59:18] <nortunyu> well, "ipod software update server could not be contacted" happens on all 3 of my computers
[03:59:52] <nortunyu> I don't think this has anything to do with my ipod, it seems to be a common itunes problem, that I haven't found a solution for yet
[04:07:17] <nortunyu> even if I run "check for updates" in itues I get an error about not being able to contact the server
[06:19:52] *** Quits: TheSeven (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) (Disconnected by services)
[06:20:12] *** Joins: [7] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven)
[06:49:20] *** Quits: [Saint] (~quassel@rockbox/user/saint) (Remote host closed the connection)
[09:12:30] *** Joins: [Saint] (~quassel@rockbox/user/saint)
[13:59:33] *** Quits: [Saint] (~quassel@rockbox/user/saint) (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:50:15] <nortunyu> anyone around?
[16:15:33] <user890104> yes
[16:19:17] <nortunyu> I spent half the night looking into itunes not being able to update... and I am still at a loss
[16:19:34] <nortunyu> seems like a common problem, or at least it was a few years ago...
[16:20:32] <nortunyu> I tried all the different fixes: editing hosts file, playing with lan settings, flushing dns, etc... nothing works
[16:24:38] <nortunyu> do you think it's time to give up? I certainly have no idea what to do anymore
[16:24:49] <nortunyu> other than shelling out another $300 for a new ipod
[16:37:54] <user890104> nortunyu: give up? no, definetely not
[16:38:47] <nortunyu> ok :)
[16:39:04] <user890104> your NOR flash is ok, and the hard disk is also fine
[16:39:12] <nortunyu> that's good
[16:39:12] <user890104> it's just itunes that doesn't want to flash it
[16:39:41] <user890104> i guess that you don't have the right driver loaded
[16:40:08] <nortunyu> in the ipod?
[16:40:24] <user890104> on the computer, so itunes can do its thing
[16:40:36] <nortunyu> btw, I can't even update itunes, regardless of ipod stuff...
[16:40:54] <user890104> but as you've seen in my video, it is possible to restore an ipod without itunes at all
[16:41:10] <user890104> can you check the timing of the first two steps?
[16:41:34] <nortunyu> the first 2 steps in your video?
[16:41:42] <user890104> or do the first two steps with itunes turned off
[16:41:43] <user890104> yes
[16:41:58] <user890104> then turn on itunes, and try to restore with shift+click on Resotre
[16:41:58] <nortunyu> ok
[16:42:22] <user890104> it's also possible that i've sent you a wrong firmware
[16:42:27] <user890104> i'll double check that
[16:44:28] <user890104> damn, i've sent you the firmware for classic 2G :)
[16:44:49] <nortunyu> I'm happy to hear that!
[16:44:50] <user890104> ok, go here: http://www.felixbruns.de/iPod/firmware/
[16:45:15] <user890104> and download both classic 3g and classic 4g
[16:45:22] <user890104> then try each of them with shift+click
[16:47:00] <nortunyu> k, downloading...
[16:51:39] <nortunyu> bah, same errors with both
[16:52:05] <nortunyu> firmware file is not compatible
[17:01:49] <nortunyu> he first two steps run perfectly fine
[17:01:52] <nortunyu> no speed issues
[17:15:23] <user890104> your NOR flash says that the version of firmware is 2.0.5
[17:15:39] <user890104> that matches classic 4g (160 gb) (38/2.0.5)
[17:15:45] <user890104> on the firmware website
[17:16:11] <user890104> can you reboot your ipod, then hold down menu+select while it boots
[17:16:18] <user890104> while it's connected to usb
[17:16:23] <nortunyu> mm, in itunes at the top it shows my serial number and sfotware version 2.0.4
[17:16:39] <user890104> then tell me what happens
[17:16:48] <user890104> rVwS2.0.5
[17:17:05] <user890104> this reads as: SwVr (software version) 2.0.5
[17:18:44] <user890104> and #doMMB562 means Mod # MC297
[17:18:48] <nortunyu> this just gets it to dfu mode, no?
[17:18:56] <user890104> no, it gets it to disk mode
[17:19:00] <nortunyu> the apple logo shows up, it "clicks", then tursn off
[17:19:19] <user890104> http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1363
[17:19:25] <user890104> follow these instructions
[17:19:46] <user890104> "iPod devices with a Click Wheel"
[17:20:43] <user890104> once you get to disk mode, retry manual restoring with itunes, using the classic 4g firmware
[17:21:09] <nortunyu> ok, it's in disk mode
[17:21:11] <nortunyu> one sec
[17:21:42] <nortunyu> same error
[17:23:33] <user890104> can you use ipodscsi?
[17:23:49] <user890104> rename the ipsw file to .zip
[17:23:56] <user890104> then extract it
[17:25:19] <nortunyu> I need to do the first two steps, with the WTF and FIRMWARE files?
[17:25:41] <user890104> well, if it's in disk mode, you don't need to
[17:25:59] <nortunyu> ok, doing it
[17:26:02] <nortunyu> but it's slow again
[17:26:37] <nortunyu> maybe a bit less slow?
[17:26:45] <nortunyu> 7 lines so far
[17:28:04] <user890104> 7 lines or 7 dots?
[17:28:19] <user890104> there are about 15 lines in totoal
[17:28:21] <user890104> total*
[17:28:33] <user890104> and your model's firmware is smaller, so there should be less
[17:28:34] <nortunyu> almost done
[17:29:21] <nortunyu> rebooting device... done
[17:29:34] <nortunyu> now I have the do not disconnect screen
[17:29:45] <user890104> did it reboot?
[17:29:57] <user890104> and is the Do not disconnect screen colorful?
[17:30:19] <nortunyu> it rebooted
[17:30:23] <nortunyu> nope, black and white
[17:30:44] <user890104> uhm well, i think your best bet is waiting for [7] to be available
[17:31:19] <user890104> you posted a link to your NOR flash earlier, so he could have a look as well
[17:31:29] <nortunyu> ok
[17:31:36] <user890104> i have to go now, goodbye
[17:31:43] <nortunyu> bye bye, thanks
[17:31:48] <[7]> so what's the executive summary here? OF crashing during boot for no obvious reason?
[17:32:13] <nortunyu> what is OF?
[17:32:19] <[7]> original firmware
[17:32:51] <nortunyu> I don't really see anything crashing anywhere
[17:33:16] <[7]> <nortunyu> the apple logo shows up, it "clicks", then tursn off
[17:33:38] <nortunyu> that's if I keep holding menu+select
[17:33:43] <user890104> [7]: we have an unrestorable ipod
[17:34:01] <user890104> itunes refuses to do so, and ipodscsi doesn't want to properly flash the fw partition
[17:34:04] <nortunyu> otherwise I get an apple logo, followed by "restore with itunes"
[17:34:10] <user890104> or rather, the bootloader doesn't want to boot it
[17:34:42] <[7]> so writing the fw with ipodscsi works, but fails to boot afterwards?
[17:34:50] <user890104> yup
[17:34:52] <[7]> HDD SMART is OK?
[17:35:12] <user890104> haven't checked that
[17:35:24] <[7]> any signs of problems with emcore/rockbox?
[17:35:38] <nortunyu> I only used it for about a day
[17:35:44] <[7]> how old is it?
[17:35:44] <nortunyu> it seemd fine
[17:35:46] <[7]> any clicking noise from the drive?
[17:35:53] <nortunyu> less than a week old
[17:36:06] <nortunyu> not really any clicking from what I remember
[17:36:17] <[7]> hm, can't really be a broken drive then... do a SMART check regardless just to rule that out
[17:36:34] <nortunyu> the reason I wanted to restore was because windows was no longer seeing the drive when I botted the fallback image
[17:36:42] <nortunyu> so I was unable to transfer any more files
[17:37:09] <nortunyu> how do I do a smart check?
[17:37:11] <[7]> and you can now actually transfer files successfully in disk mode?
[17:37:27] <nortunyu> I haven't tried
[17:37:50] <[7]> go to diagmode (menu+select, then left+select), choose "manual test", go to "I/O" "HDD SMART info" or something like that
[17:38:42] <nortunyu> (I can't transfer files in disk mode, windows wants me to format the drive)
[17:39:35] <[7]> well, try formatting it then
[17:40:19] <nortunyu> the test looks ok... gives me a bunch of stats
[17:40:35] <[7]> what are those numbers?
[17:40:42] <[7]> especially remaps and pending?
[17:40:45] <nortunyu> retracts: 13
[17:40:57] <nortunyu> realloacs: 16368
[17:41:04] <[7]> ok, scratch that
[17:41:04] <nortunyu> pending sectors: 8
[17:41:12] <nortunyu> k
[17:41:16] <[7]> that drive is completely fucked up
[17:41:28] <[7]> at least 17000 bad sectors on it
[17:41:52] <[7]> that both explains both the USB transfer and restoring problems
[17:42:00] <nortunyu> meaning... it's just broken?
[17:42:05] <[7]> exactly that.
[17:42:17] <nortunyu> and I can't return it or fix it?
[17:42:22] <[7]> one could try to work around the damage somehow, but it will never work reliably
[17:42:35] <[7]> returning it seems like the best option if possible
[17:43:07] <nortunyu> will apple let me? it's still within the 2 week return period, but I've done things I'm not supposed to
[17:43:17] <[7]> was that a new one? or a refurb?
[17:43:25] <[7]> I can't quite believe that apple ships massively damaged drives
[17:43:25] <nortunyu> but I guess they have no way of knowing?
[17:43:37] <nortunyu> it was new as far as I know
[17:43:44] <nortunyu> I paid full price
[17:43:50] <[7]> if they really wanted to they could possibly figure it out... but I don't think they'll even try to.
[17:44:18] <nortunyu> ok, off to the apple store I guess!
[17:44:27] <[7]> which model was that? 160GB?
[17:44:35] <nortunyu> ya
[17:45:02] <[7]> that is really fishy...
[17:45:47] <[7]> does diagmode list the number of power on hours somewhere?
[17:45:48] <nortunyu> I trasnfered about 100GB of music to it successfully
[17:46:18] <nortunyu> poweron hours: 20
[17:46:28] <[7]> hm, so this is indeed a completely new but badly broken drive
[17:46:38] <[7]> as if there was some kind of dirt on it in some area
[17:46:46] <[7]> or possibly a headcrash due to shock
[17:46:58] <[7]> well, try getting it replaced by apple
[17:47:11] <nortunyu> I will
[18:32:17] <nortunyu> I am back
[18:32:22] <nortunyu> with a new ipod :p
[18:38:05] <nortunyu> so, do I risk rockbox again?
[18:38:21] <nortunyu> or was there never really much risk to begin with
[18:38:56] <user890104> check the numbers in diagmode first
[18:40:52] <nortunyu> retracts: 0, reallocs: 0, pending sectors: 0, poweron hours: 3, start/stops: 104
[18:41:44] <user890104> that's better
[18:42:16] <user890104> the hard disk is really brand new and undamaged
[18:42:30] <nortunyu> yay
[18:43:10] <nortunyu> itunes says this ipod requires itunes 10.7 or later
[18:43:21] <user890104> you can try installing emcore using the bootstrap and installer i last sent you in the same archive as emcore.ubi
[18:43:51] <user890104> this is the most recent version
[18:45:14] <nortunyu> I forget what the steps were, it's all a big mess in my head now
[18:47:26] <user890104> the wiki instructions should be enough
[18:47:57] <user890104> since you have itunes, use that method
[18:48:38] <nortunyu> good idea
[18:49:19] <nortunyu> can I use itunes 9.2.1.5 even though it says my ipod requires a new version?
[18:49:39] <[7]> yes
[18:49:44] <[7]> that's plain nonsense
[18:50:01] <nortunyu> k
[18:51:54] <user890104> can you wait a bit?
[18:52:25] <user890104> i'd like to have a look at a brand new ipod's nor flash
[18:52:48] <nortunyu> ok, but I'm in UMSboot now
[18:52:49] <user890104> i found some interesting stuff in mine
[18:53:10] <user890104> ok, just don't upload the installer
[18:53:30] <nortunyu> k
[18:53:42] <user890104> upload emcore.ubi instead
[18:54:19] <user890104> i'll be home in 2-3 mins, so i can send you the download commanda
[18:54:48] <user890104> or if 7 can copy them, it would speed up the process
[18:55:01] <nortunyu> ok, emcore.ubi is uploaded
[19:02:15] <user890104> nortunyu: and you see Waiting for USB commands?
[19:02:27] <nortunyu> no
[19:02:33] <nortunyu> I guess I need to eject the drive?
[19:02:44] <user890104> ah, yes
[19:02:58] <nortunyu> waiting for commands
[19:03:03] <user890104> ok
[19:03:14] <user890104> open the command prompt
[19:03:50] <user890104> python3\python.exe tools\emcore.py memalign 0x10 0x100000
[19:04:12] <user890104> and tell me the 0x800xxxx part of the response
[19:04:50] <nortunyu> 8000c80
[19:06:02] <user890104> readbootflash 0 0x8000c80 0x100000
[19:06:02] <user890104> downloadfile 0x8000c80 0x100000 norflash-new.bin
[19:06:02] <user890104> free 0x8000c80
[19:06:17] <user890104> (using the same prefix as above)
[19:07:46] <user890104> then zip&upload norflash-new.bin
[19:07:56] <user890104> i would love to see its contents
[19:08:29] <user890104> last time i discovered a hard disk testing tool, and something else that was used during factory testing of the ipods
[19:08:50] <user890104> seems like itunes wipes these remains on updating/restoring
[19:09:55] <nortunyu> https://mega.co.nz/#!rB4VyJCZ!E27a1RGIcwAsubzYPFLdhmvsXS1xikIOGaAlmXuVi0g
[19:10:14] <nortunyu> btw, the free command worked this time
[19:10:55] <nortunyu> I can install rockbox now?
[19:11:17] <user890104> yes, it is supposed to work, 7 mislead me with the syntax earlier
[19:11:28] <user890104> but i figured out at some point
[19:11:36] <user890104> let me see the file
[19:13:30] <user890104> ok, proceed with the installation
[19:13:35] <user890104> and thank you for the file
[19:13:55] <nortunyu> I just menu+select to get out of this?
[19:14:00] <user890104> actually, the fact that umsboot runs, means that apple hasn't fixed the software exploit we use to install rockbox
[19:14:10] <user890104> well, you can also do something else
[19:14:22] <user890104> since you're already running emcore
[19:15:25] <nortunyu> but don't I need installer-ipodclassic.ubi on there instead?
[19:15:46] <user890104> well, ok then
[19:15:56] <user890104> python3\python.exe tools\emcore.py reset
[19:16:13] <user890104> then enter DFU and load the installer this time
[19:24:01] <nortunyu> wooo it's working
[19:25:18] <user890104> :)
[19:25:23] <nortunyu> now it is normal for windows to take ~20 seconds to see the contents of the drive after I click on it?
[19:25:55] <user890104> well, yes
[19:26:09] <user890104> unfortunately this still isn't fixed
[19:27:34] <nortunyu> k
[19:28:09] <nortunyu> I'm so glad this works
[19:28:16] <nortunyu> thanks for all your help
[19:28:36] <user890104> we're glad we were helpful
[19:29:18] <nortunyu> and what's up with the battery when the drive is connected? it always looks misleadingly low
[19:29:28] <nortunyu> but when I disconnect and play music, looks normal...
[19:30:30] <user890104> you mean in rockbox?
[19:30:36] <user890104> or the one in emcore's menu
[19:31:51] <nortunyu> when rockbox is running, and the big usb connection shows up
[19:31:57] <nortunyu> the battery looks empty
[19:33:49] <user890104> it should be charging when usb is connected
[19:34:04] <user890104> and there should be an animation of the battery level that shows it
[19:34:08] <user890104> but i'm not sure
[19:34:14] <user890104> you can ask in #rockbox
[19:34:23] <nortunyu> k
[19:38:23] <user890104> and about your old ipod, it looks like to me that someone in the factory or the store got it dropped on the floor :)
[19:39:45] <nortunyu> how sensitive are these devices to dropping?
[19:39:57] <nortunyu> it seems like this is something that would happen quite often
[19:41:06] <user890104> well, there is a hard disk inside, and plates that rotate at 4200 RPM
[19:41:50] <user890104> there's a big chance it would get damaged somehow if it's dropped while reading/writing
[19:42:00] <nortunyu> and I'm guessing those ipod cases don't do much for protection against this?
[19:43:05] <user890104> not really i think
[19:43:40] <user890104> but if the hard disk is powered off, the head is not near the plates and it's more likely that it would survive dropping
[19:43:56] <user890104> i wouldn't try that of course
[19:44:05] <nortunyu> heh
[19:44:37] <user890104> rockbox (and probably apple's OS too) uses the large RAM space for cacheing hard disk data that's going to be read soon (read-ahead)
[19:45:11] <user890104> so the hdd turns on for like 2-3 seconds, and reads about 40-50 MB of data ahead
[19:45:28] <user890104> then it's off about 10 mins, until the buffer is empty
[19:45:52] <user890104> (it has 64 MB of RAM in total)
[20:32:46] *** Joins: [Saint] (~quassel@rockbox/user/saint)
[21:15:35] <[7]> nortunyu: the battery meter is a crude estimate that will be way off as long as the disk is spinningh
[21:15:42] <[7]> and probably not very accurate while charging either
[21:16:03] <[7]> discharging with hdd off should be somewhat accurate (although the top 20% of the scale might be way off)
[21:16:29] <[Saint]> Mine says 9882m right now :)
[21:16:37] <nortunyu> I thought that might be the case... better to just ignore it
[21:17:03] <[Saint]> that's at 62% battery, too.
[21:17:27] <[Saint]> the estimated runtime is basically fairytales.
[22:58:30] <nortunyu> is there any reason for me to *not* always just run the fallback image?
[22:59:59] <user890104> yes, it won't play any songs
[23:00:10] <user890104> it doesn't have audio codecs, apps, nothing
[23:00:28] <user890104> just the rockbox core, and we use it mostly for file transfers
[23:02:33] <nortunyu> ah, I see
[23:11:29] <user890104> nortunyu: did your ipod's hard disk got formatted when installing emcore?
[23:16:13] <nortunyu> I think it formatted and then flashed
[23:16:17] <nortunyu> it was pretty quick
[23:21:17] <[Saint]> it should be.
[23:31:51] <nortunyu> if the ipod is connected via usb, and I eject it so that I can use it, but leave it connected, is it still charging?
[23:32:08] <[Saint]> yes.
[23:32:38] <[Saint]> Interestingly, it will also charge when powered down completely as wel.
[23:32:49] <user890104> you can charge and use it at the same time, by holding down MENU while plugging usb in
[23:33:33] <nortunyu> great
[23:33:41] <[Saint]> s/MENU/any key/
[23:34:56] <[Saint]> ...I really need to try and sneak a menu setting for that into Rockbox again.
[23:34:56] <user890104> ah, i missed that, it actually works
[23:35:16] <[Saint]> That "hold N key to subvert USB" business is fucking stupid.
[23:37:30] <[Saint]> well, its not that bad...but there also should be an alternative "hold any key to mount, and don't otherwise" and "do nothing at all" setting options.
[23:38:48] <user890104> or a "connect mass storage and don't chagre" key
[23:39:13] <user890104> when i use it as a portable hard disk for my smartphone via usb otg
[23:41:12] <nortunyu> why would you not want it to charge? because it steals power from the smartphone?
[23:42:12] <[Saint]> exactly.
[23:42:13] <user890104> yes, and because if my phone sees a device requiring more than ~250 mA, it refuses to connect it
[23:43:19] <user890104> rockbox's USB descriptor is cleverly adjusted to report it that needs almost no power, when you turn off charging via usb