[00:46:01] at least a few years ago there were suspicions that kingston products are in fact "grade b" sandisk hardware [06:39:55] *** Quits: TheSeven (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [06:41:23] *** Joins: TheSeven (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) [10:57:01] <[Saint]> TheSeven: that was quite recently confirmed. [10:57:25] <[Saint]> In fact, it goes a bit deeper than 'grade b' product lines being resold. [10:58:01] <[Saint]> There's some evidence that silicon that outright failed QC is being put back into recirculation by them "unknowingly". [10:58:25] <[Saint]> TheSeven: also - that second .ubi file you sent me to test is awesome. [10:58:59] <[Saint]> The boot time is back to normal, and the drive sounds as though it is totally happy with the situation when passing off controll to Rockbox. [11:13:38] mmmm test version of emCORE :) can i try it out, too? [11:13:45] and what are the changes? [11:14:57] <[Saint]> Nothing relevant to you unless you have a CE-ATA version. [11:15:19] ah, i see [11:15:40] <[Saint]> TheSeven just finally got emCORE to play nice with the CE-ATA disk and spin down nicely when handing off to Rockbox. [11:16:04] <[Saint]> Previously it didn't bother spinning down at all and it made the head slam into the platter. [11:16:28] what? [11:16:31] <[Saint]> It made some very ugly noises of complaint. [11:16:48] that's what we've been hearing? [11:17:06] <[Saint]> If you have the CE-ATA version, yes. [11:17:16] what does that mean? [11:17:34] <[Saint]> As in, not the IDE version. [11:19:28] <[Saint]> The ATA iPods make an odd noise when handing off to Rockbox from emCORE - but its not a /bad/ noise. [11:19:45] <[Saint]> The CE-ATA iPods sound as though you're doing a hard reset. [11:20:42] <[Saint]> s/ATA/IDE/ [11:58:10] *** Quits: [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint) (Remote host closed the connection) [11:59:15] *** Joins: [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint) [12:21:51] *** Quits: [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint) (Remote host closed the connection) [12:29:46] *** Joins: Nei (~ailin@unaffiliated/nemui) [12:30:34] hi, is it correct that the "mount" can take a long time on linux? so far waiting 5 minutes, dmesg says usb 1-1.2: reset high-speed USB device number 13 using ehci-pci [12:32:38] "long" as in 10-20 seconds, not five minutes [12:34:41] try again [12:35:10] here it says that it might take long to "recognize", whatever that means exactly --> http://www.freemyipod.org/wiki/EmCORE_Installation/iPodClassic/PrepareDFULinux [12:35:32] " It's a known issue that Linux might take a long (over 10 min) time to recognize and mount the iPod." [12:35:35] I guess I was wrong [12:35:43] it never takes me nearly that long though [12:41:28] ok crazy it really mounted [12:45:38] wahnsinn! [12:45:44] ;))) [13:04:37] TheSeven: interesting, my 32 GB SDHC card from SanDisk doesn't work either [13:04:48] so it's not an SDXC vs SDHC thing [13:05:01] my card that works is a Lexar [13:05:13] and the guy with the working 256 GB SDXC card? Also a Lexar. [13:48:26] TheSeven: https://outpost.fr/tmp/DCi.jpg/ [13:48:39] on top: doesn't work [13:48:43] bottom: works [14:03:33] actually into the ramp, not the platter [14:03:49] I'll commit that change later today [14:06:16] so that's three working Lexars, 4 failing SanDisks and 1 failing Kingston [14:07:36] https://outpost.fr/tmp/IW6.txt [14:08:44] Nei: hm, those reset messages typically correlate with long mount times, yes. they point to a bug though. when exactly does that happen? [14:09:00] for UMSboot or after installation? [14:09:21] hm, I guess you were probably using UMSboot 0.1.x, which has a known bug in that area [14:09:30] is our linux guide up to date? [14:10:34] * user890104 isn't sure about that [14:11:09] copper: that aligns with the hypothesis that kingston == sandisk [14:12:49] what do you think of making a build without the BBT big like he's suggesting? [14:13:04] bit* [14:13:54] we can do that, but I'm 100% sure that it won't help [14:14:13] this has *nothing at all* to do with the card's internal wear leveling and bad block management [14:15:28] do you have a better idea? [14:23:09] *** Joins: RockBoxNewB (6d4b5179@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.75.81.121) [14:24:24] Hi everyone. Sorry, I'm new here and don't know how this works ;-) I was told by [Saint] from the Rockbox forums to get around here, because he wanted to supply me with an updated EMCore Installer to get RB working on my iPod Classic. [14:35:12] RockBoxNewB: hm, what kind of trouble are you having with the official one? [14:41:14] RockBoxNewB: can you post a link to the forum thread that you're referring to? [14:44:45] Hi TheSeven! Yes, sure! This is the thread: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,47895.0.html I hope it has all the info you need. My problem is basically that my PC does not recognize my iPod as a hard drive after having installed the EMCore bootloader. [14:45:13] even from within the rockbox fallback image? [14:45:36] i.e. you were never able to access it after having installed emcore, so you couldn't even extract the rockbox.zip file to it? [14:50:17] you can get an experimental development build (including the diskmode app) here: http://theseven.homenet.org/~theseven/tmp/installer-ipodclassic.ubi [14:50:53] just boot umsboot from emcore's tools menu and copy that file over, then eject as usual [14:52:14] I think you got it about right! Several times, I had the trax icon for a hard drive connected via USB... but it always disappeared again after some seconds. I was never able to open or access it! [14:53:23] Therefore, i couldn't use RB Utility or extract the rockbox.zip file to it, as you wrote. And after installing the EMCore bootloader, I guess the only thing available at first is the fallback image, right? [14:53:48] *tray icon of course [14:53:56] yes [14:54:01] TheSeven: yup worked eventually [14:54:29] that's rather odd, the fallback image usually works well enough [14:54:38] anyway, you can try the diskmode app of that new build [14:54:39] how do I build emcore? [14:54:43] it's a bit faster than rockbox anyway [14:54:58] copper: just the kernel, or also the apps (boot menu, installer, ...)? [14:55:17] the installer [14:55:52] can't find a guide on the wiki [14:55:57] The Seven, sorry for being quite a noob when it comes to PC stuff...but when I open the link you gave me, I get an internet page with all kinds of strange signs, but no file ^^ [14:56:20] copper: it's a bit tricky to get the tools, especially elf2emcoreapp, set up correctly [14:56:27] Okay, solved! It was just a problem with my browser, I got the file now- [14:56:37] TheSeven: you need to set the default mimetype on your web server to application/octet-stream [14:57:06] copper: hm... works fine for me (in chrome at least) [14:57:34] RockBoxNewB: just right click on the link and hit "save as" [14:57:40] actually your server doesn't send a content type at all for that file [14:57:58] sending a default content type of application/octet-stream will force all browsers to download the file [14:58:16] instead of trying to view it because they assume text/plain [14:58:52] hm, I'll look into that (and helping you set up a toolchain) later [15:01:09] Alright, got it! Sooo... at the moment, my IPod is reset to the original firmware. Will the installation process stay the same with that new build? Use the bootstrap file, and then copy this file over instead of the .ubi file available from the EMCore installation wizard? [15:02:01] yes [15:04:32] Good. And when the EMCore bootloader is installed, I head over to the tools menu and select "Disk mode"? [15:05:11] it's in the main boot menu [15:05:32] you can't miss it ;) [15:05:44] You mean the menu where I can select "EMCore console", "Rockbox" or turn the iPod off? [15:05:48] yes [15:06:50] Awesome. No matter if it works or not... let me thank you for your great support all the way. I will try this as soon as I get home! [15:10:08] *** Parts: RockBoxNewB (6d4b5179@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.75.81.121) () [15:22:23] *** Joins: [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint) [15:22:48] *** Quits: [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [15:23:42] *** Joins: [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint) [15:38:43] *** Quits: [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) [15:46:08] *** Joins: [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint) [17:36:52] does anyone have a link to rockbox manual for ipod classic 6g can only find the video one [17:37:10] <[Saint]> There isn't one. [17:37:11] there isn't one, use the video manual [17:37:24] <[Saint]> This target is unsupported. [17:37:27] <[Saint]> No manual for you. [17:37:46] <[Saint]> Supplying a manual would give the impression that the target is supported. [17:38:34] damn Rockbox politics :P [17:40:11] <[Saint]> Well...you can't even install a build from Rockbox's point of view. [17:40:18] <[Saint]> So supplying a manual is a bit silly. [17:41:34] we should really get that fixed [17:41:52] * TheSeven wonders if that could be the first target that jumps straight from unusable to stable :P [17:42:19] <[Saint]> It likely would be, yes. [18:59:49] *** Joins: RockBoxNewB (6d4b5179@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.75.81.121) [19:00:11] Hi there again, TheSeven and/or [Saint]! [19:01:12] *** Quits: [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [19:02:04] I've tried the installation now, with the new build that includes EMCore disk mode. Unfortunately, I didn't ger very far. i'm starting to believe that my iPod must be cursed or something... I followed the installation, and when I ejected my iPod and the EMCore installer started. However... it says "Formatting..." on the screen for more than 10 minutes now. [19:02:11] *get [19:02:23] *** Joins: [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint) [19:03:08] [Saint], in case you didn't get the message because of your lost connection: I've tried the installation now, with the new build that includes EMCore disk mode. Unfortunately, I didn't ger very far. i'm starting to believe that my iPod must be cursed or something... I followed the installation, and when I ejected my iPod and the EMCore installer started. However... it says "Formatting..." on the screen for more than 1 [19:03:32] *** Quits: STeeF (~STeeF@office.hostnetbv.nl) (Remote host closed the connection) [19:04:06] With the "standard" build from the installation wizard, I got the EMCore bootloader to work at least. [19:18:41] RockBoxNewB: which model is that? (capacity and year of manufacturing) [19:20:15] It is an iPod Classic with 160GB capacity. Is there any way to find out the year of manufacturing? I bought it used, and I don't have the original packaging anymore. It SHOULD be a 6G, but I'm not entirely sure. [19:20:36] ok, is it one of the thick or thin ones? [19:21:31] It's difficult to say whether it's thick or thin...I'll see if I find the measurements online somewhere... [19:21:47] http://bindapple.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/apple-ipod3.jpg [19:22:19] http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr290/xmobilelife/ipod%20video%20classic/classicthickslim.jpg [19:25:53] Judging from those pics, I'd say it seems to be one of the thick ones! [19:26:32] ok, so it's the 2007 model [19:27:57] I'm quite sure that's correct! [19:29:23] so another CE-ATA one... and I'm not sure why any of the recent changes would make formatting fail on those [19:31:31] I mean there's always the possibility that I simply forgot something during the installation...but I just can't figure out what! I tried it twice just to be sure...and it got stuck on "Formatting" both times. When I used the standard build, I remember that formatting only took a very short time, even though the hard drive of the iPod was packed full with music. [19:33:33] yes, it's supposed to take 10 seconds or so [19:36:10] What the hell is wrong with that damn iPod...from what I read on the net, the installation of EMCore and RockBox seemed to work fine for EVERYONE but me. [19:45:41] I guess the Emcore disk mode is only included on the latest builds? So that there might not be another one I could try? [19:46:08] if formatting fails, disk mode will fail as well [19:46:18] because all of this means that emcore is basically unable to access the drive [19:46:40] when you installed the official release, did you get the winter/snow bootmenu theme? [19:46:51] or the one with the blue background? [19:47:24] I got the winter/snow theme! [19:52:40] hm [19:52:49] I don't get it [19:56:27] RockBoxNewB: did you try letting it attempt to format for a few minutes? [19:56:40] does it just get stuck, or eventually report an error? [19:57:13] I waited for about 15-20 minutes, I guess! It doesn't report an error...simply NOTHING happens. [19:57:32] hm [19:57:55] Would that behavior make sense for a slim iPod? [19:58:06] the behavior doesn't really make sense for anything [19:58:30] I just wanted to know which hard disk driver it's actually using, the thick and thin models are totally different in that area [19:58:36] Is it important whether the USB cord remains connected to iPod and PC after I ejected the drive? [19:58:42] nope [20:00:25] Ok, good to know. Because this time, I removed the cord, but with the standard build I didn't. But if it doesn't make any difference, it cannot be the reason of course. [20:00:57] seems like something deadlocked the ATA mutex [20:01:02] everything else should have a timeout [20:01:43] [Saint]: any issues with drive wakeup from sleep on your ce-ata ipod? [20:06:34] Is there ANY driver/program/anything that could cause issues with the iPod or EMCore? Maybe with iTunes or something? [20:06:45] not at that level [20:07:12] this kind of stuff could influence accessing the ipod from a PC, but it's highly unlikely to mess with the on-device part of installation [20:08:25] With the standard build, the on-device installation worked but not the access from the PC...this thing is weird. [20:20:26] There's probably no way to work with the official build to get the EMCore bootloader running, and then somehow switch to the new build? [21:13:59] RockBoxNewB: you can do that, but I doubt it will be able to access your disk [21:14:02] might be worth a try though [21:19:24] Sooo... how shall I proceed? Install the official build, and then access the UMSboot volume to place the other build there? [21:19:34] yes [21:21:21] Alright, let me try that out. [21:33:22] Same result! Bootloader worked fine after using the official build. I selected "Run UMSBoot volume" from the tools menu, accessed it from the PC and copied the other build there. Ejected the volume...and it's stuck on "formatting" again. [21:34:48] What role does the "Apple Mobile Device Driver" actually play here? From the outset, I had the problem that the process was started again after I killed it...it keeps coming up after a few seconds, no matter how often I kill it. [22:12:51] By the way: would a 7G iPod be safer to RockBox? Is a 6G one more problematic? [22:17:19] 6G/6.5G/7G are basicly the same hardware, with different disk drives, so it should be the same [22:20:54] If that would help me getting a rockboxed iPod, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a new one even. But if the problems are still the same...I'll better save my money XD [22:24:27] well, we can (in theory) debug the issue if you have the time to help us by testing different version of emCORE on your device, until we finally make it work [22:25:53] the fact that it goes into formatting mode at all already means that it failed to access the disk [22:25:54] this will fix it not only for your device, but for all of them that are using the same hard disk model [22:26:43] user890104: can you make him an svn head build? [22:26:56] (without my ata patches applied, just with disk mode) [22:27:06] TheSeven: sure [22:27:14] that would narrow down the cause quite a bit [22:28:36] http://files.freemyipod.org/~build/ that's r928 [22:28:48] http://files.freemyipod.org/~build/apps/installer-ipodclassic.ubi [22:29:25] * user890104 needs to fix builds.freemyipod.org at some point [22:32:18] I'll get back to you in a minute on that. I just took my iPod to a THIRD computer, not expecting anything (another Win 7 machine)....and I GOT IT. It was recognized as "iPod 160GB", and the connection was not lost. RB Utility is running right now, installing the "complete" Rockbox version. i'll try USB connectivity on all machines as soon as the installation is through. I'll get back to you with results. [22:32:45] ok thanks [22:38:51] Alright, Rockbox has been successfully installed via RB Utility. I ejected the drive, and it looks fine (with colours and everything). Tried it on the Win 7 laptop... and problem persists. The iPod was recognized for about 5 seconds, and disappeared again. Trying Win XP machine right now. [22:47:38] Win XP machine (miraculously?) seems to work fine now! I will have to try it more than once to be sure, but the iPod was recognized as a drive, and I was able to open it and see the contents. [23:01:33] after enabling fastboot into rockbox how do I get back to the ums boot menu? [23:04:14] you mean the emcore bootmenu? [23:04:20] just press and hold any button during boot [23:08:52] thanks [23:10:48] Alright, TheSeven, I'm copying music from my XP computer to my iPod at the moment, and it seems to work fine. USB connection to my Laptop still remains a problem, however. I will have to sign out of IRC for the moment (if there's nothing left to clear up at the moment). I will report back as soon as I find out something new. [23:13:50] Ah, wait, one last thing I wanted to ask: as soon as Rockbox is completely installed on the iPod... do I still need iTunes on my computer? Or can I remove it entirely now? I installed it only because it was requested in the EMCore installation wizard. [23:14:23] you only need it for the DFU step, if you want to use the itunes route for that [23:14:30] it isn't related to rockbox in any way [23:15:09] So now that the iPod is recognized on the XP machine (or at least it SEEMS to work), I can remove iTunes without any risk? [23:15:20] yes [23:20:30] That's good to know. By the way: How is it that the iPod now only has about 140GB of capacity, instead of about 150GB it used to have with the original firmware? I could not find any folder on the drive that consumes so much space, but still the space is gone... [23:22:35] *free* or *total* space? [23:22:58] Let me check... [23:23:06] 160GB = 152587MiB = 149GiB [23:23:26] so that's what you should be seeing with emcore/rockbox [23:23:47] with the original firmware it should be a bit (few hundred MB) less because of the firmware partition (which gets removed by emcore) [23:25:57] H, strange. it now indicated about 148GB of total space (which would be fine), but I'm quite sure it showed a lot less of "free space". Unfortunately, as I am now copying music over to it, I cannot really compare the free space anymore! [23:26:27] In doubt, let's just assume everything is fine. I'll check it again when copying is done. [23:27:45] the FAT will take away another 149MiB btw, that's what the "used space" on a freshly formatted partition is [23:28:41] if the free space number is wrong, then that's most likely due to filesystem corruption (not safely ejecting etc.) [23:31:43] I'm used to the actual space being a bit less than indicated, but it looked like more than 10GB were missing (in addition to what was already missing in the original firmware). I also try to safely eject the device at any time... but sometimes it doesn't work. It says "the device is still in use", although it actually isn't. What can I do in that case? Instead of just pulling the cord= [23:31:58] ? [23:34:19] hm, without some advanced tools the best thing you can do is wait for the ipod's drive to stop spinning. that's still not 100% clean but limits the corruption to less critical things [23:34:30] if you want to be ultra safe, shut down the PC before unplugging it [23:36:47] I haven't had such a problem with the iPod yet...but some USB drives (for example USB sticks) were still "in use" after I didn't do anything on my computer for an hour or so. The only thing working in that case was indeed shutting down the computer, you're right. [23:38:43] i use Disk manager (diskmgmt.msc), then set the drive to Offline, then back to Online [23:38:53] then safe removing works [23:39:08] hm, no need to online it again [23:39:19] but i'm not sure what force offlining it does really [23:39:36] I typically just find and nuke the offending handles with process explorer [23:39:52] Unlocker doesn't find any [23:40:11] it's probably MS security essentials that access the hdd when not in use, to scan it [23:40:22] (good luck scanning 2 TB) [23:40:34] i bring it online, so it's online the next time i connect it :) [23:40:49] otherwise i'm hitting by head against a wall because the drive doesn't show up [23:40:56] my* [23:41:08] Good suggestions, guys. I'll keep those in mind. [23:41:50] user890104: it's typically trivial crap like handles to thumbs.db files etc. [23:42:22] TheSeven: Unlocker should catch these [23:42:57] I have used Unlocker to "unlock" single files already... but not an entire DRIVE. Can it actually do that? [23:43:18] yes [23:44:16] there isn't any difference between unlocking a folder and a drive [23:45:40] I'm impressed ;-) I just tried it... and you're right. I just never got the idea to try that ^^ [23:51:28] Alright then... I'll leave for today. The current "solution" to my USB troubles might've been a pure coincidence... but I won't forget how much you helped and tried to get everything working. How can I support you guys to thank you? I mean I can donate to Rockbox, but what can I do for EMCore?