[01:19:20] hmm. I'm having the same problem as you rick. Maybe I just need to try a few times. [02:48:57] *** Joins: JayTheWhovian (444b1a05@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.75.26.5) [02:49:05] Hello? [03:00:05] PR0XIDIAN: are you running Windows? [03:00:11] yes. windows 8.1 [03:00:28] I have 6 computers though lol (I work in I.T.) [03:00:34] Try running the bootstrap as admin. It "shouldn't" be necessary. [03:00:45] But... [03:00:48] I have 5 linux installations, 4 windows 8.1 installs, and two windows 7 installs. [03:00:55] I did that :( [03:01:00] Yeah, I have a few machines too. I work in Windows internals and drivers. [03:01:16] nice! Yeah, I'm in I.T. as my job and computer science for programming at my university [03:01:21] but yeah, I ran it as admin already [03:01:35] I think I screwed things up by restoring the ipod with itunes =/ [03:02:07] I don't think so. [03:02:12] which processes do I need to kill again? [03:02:37] My first attempt (with what turned out to be a not-yet-released emcore) was right after restoring the iPod with iTunes, and it worked after the second try. [03:02:45] hmm [03:02:51] because I had rockbox and emcore installed [03:02:55] then I replaced the hard drive with an SSD [03:03:05] Oh, basically the same here. [03:03:14] the stock firmware won't even see the full SSD size [03:03:27] Right. frickn' apple. [03:03:29] lol. My friends are all making fun of me "spotify exists. Why would you want to put that much money into an old mp3 player?!" [03:03:52] and I'm like. DUH! Flac files, massive storage, amazing battery life. Why the hell would I use a smartphone with limited storage, low quality streaming, and terrible battery life?! [03:04:31] In my case it's b/c I have 40,000 mp3s and I don't want to depend on an onilne service that might disappear. [03:04:43] exactly [03:04:50] ok [03:05:00] when I ran bootstrap_ipod_classic_itunes.exe as administrator [03:05:08] it says "ums boot has been launched! " [03:05:12] on the ipod screen it says [03:05:42] "umsboot v0.1.0 r674" please copy a ubi file to the mass storage device and safely eject and unplug it when youre done. If you booted this accidentally please hold menu + select to reboot" [03:05:45] ok. So now look in File Explorer, you should see a new 64MB "disk drive" [03:05:53] which is fine, except the 64mb partition doesn't show up in explorer [03:05:57] thats the problem. It isn't there [03:06:20] Which version itunes do you have installed? [03:06:37] hang on let me check [03:06:49] I have 1200 steam games installed [03:06:56] so looking through add and remove programs takes a minute... [03:07:24] there are literally 30 entries starting with the letter I lol [03:07:28] its 12.0.1.26 [03:07:54] here is a screenshot [03:07:57] http://puu.sh/eWciV/36df065d25.png [03:07:59] kill: applemobiledeviceservices (that one keeps coming back), itunes, itunes helper... at least [03:08:39] OH [03:08:43] I killed all of the processes [03:08:46] but I didn't kill the service [03:08:59] yeah, the service claims the device, I think [03:09:03] boo [03:09:04] LOL [03:09:06] though I never actually checked that with procexp [03:09:14] I hate apple. This is the ONLY apple device I like/respect haha [03:09:44] trying again... [03:09:49] Thanks for the help [03:10:05] for me the ipod is a case of "best of bad choices" [03:10:09] I've modded and hacked MANY things. So its embarasing to ask, but I certainly appreciate it. [03:10:14] Pretty much [03:10:29] The new ipods are a step backwards from the classic in my oppinion [03:11:07] this time I got error 31 [03:11:13] "a device attached to the system is not functioning" [03:11:23] ipod screen still shows the ums boot stuff though [03:11:45] closed and ran again, this time it says error 3, the system cannot find the device specified [03:12:01] check for apple mobile device support again [03:12:17] I was tempted to rename that exe so it couldn't start [03:12:22] would uninstalling itunes help? [03:12:42] I disabled the apple mobile device service entirely [03:13:21] Well, despite what the good folks here opined, I was not able to get the ipod recognized without apple's drivers [03:13:32] and if you uninstall itunes, you will lose those [03:14:03] windows 8.1 no longer allows for unsigned drivers (at least not easily) from what I can see, you can install your own driver for it without itunes, but its not signed. So its quite a headache. [03:14:28] (of course, apple just could not have made their device show up as a standard usb disk drive...) [03:14:34] right? [03:14:58] so, I'm plugging in the ipod before holding menu + select for 15 seconds, and it shows the orange sync bubble on the screen. [03:15:04] did yours do that? [03:15:13] This is even though I've killed all of the processes and the service [03:15:43] oh, the standard ipod sync bubble. [03:16:04] yeah [03:16:10] I'm afraid I don't remember. [03:16:14] Oh wait. [03:16:22] If you see that, you're not in DFU mode. [03:16:45] hmm [03:16:50] What am I doing wrong then? [03:17:06] I thought the instructions said to hold menu + select 15 seconds and then run the bootstrap exe [03:17:31] I *think* the formula is: Unplug usb, hold menu + select... apple logo appears, then at about the 11 second point, the screen goes black. Now you're in DFU mode. [03:18:04] *** Quits: PR0XIDIAN (18086f9f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.8.111.159) (Quit: Page closed) [03:18:48] *** Joins: lala (595c7d4b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.92.125.75) [03:19:44] *** Joins: PR0XIDIAN (18086f9f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.8.111.159) [03:19:46] browser crashed! :( [03:19:50] what was the last thing you said? [03:21:11] This is how I was doing it. I thought the cable had to be plugged in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_bIDtBohnE [03:21:58] *** Quits: lala (595c7d4b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.92.125.75) (Client Quit) [03:32:33] I haven't gone through that part for a while now and I'm on a phone call. I'll try to help more later. [03:32:47] I may have another 6 I can use as a guinea pig. [03:47:42] no worries. Thanks man! I'm just getting frustrated with it lol [03:48:31] Same here. [03:48:55] I major part of my frustration is that I don't know "where I am", what state things are in, etc. [03:49:36] Pretty much. I just keep having it boot into the wrong mode it sounds like. I just tried the steps on my windows 7 computer with the same results [03:53:04] Anybody? [03:54:34] @Jay ? [03:57:22] Hello? [03:57:32] I need some help [03:57:38] Pr0x: Nope. I have a spare thin 5, but not a 6. [03:57:58] Ok. [03:58:13] Do you know how to uninstall? [03:59:57] Nothing beyond what's in the emcore wiki. [04:02:09] *** Quits: JayTheWhovian (444b1a05@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.75.26.5) (Quit: Page closed) [04:04:57] hmm [04:05:03] yeah. I don't know why I keep booting into the wrong mode [04:05:09] I might just be stuck with the stock apple firmware :( [04:06:31] I can't get the 60mb partition to show up no matter what I do [04:08:15] I'm actually tempted to rip this apart and move the SSD to an ipod video. I've heard they handle rockbox better than the classic [04:16:51] the video does have a notably slower CPU. That may make less diff with the rockbox firmware than with the stock. [04:20:07] <[Saint]> wait...wait... [04:20:18] <[Saint]> ARe you trying to get into DFU mode _without_ USB plugged? [04:20:27] <[Saint]> 'cos, that ain't gonna work, yo. [04:20:57] <[Saint]> see: http://www.freemyipod.org/wiki/EmCORE_Installation/iPodClassic/PrepareDFULinux [04:21:34] <[Saint]> (I linked the Linux page, but, the OS is irrelevant here - its not getting into DFU mode without a USB connection) [04:22:53] <[Saint]> There's even a handy video to follow along to! [04:22:57] <[Saint]> :)) [04:23:23] oh,ok. [04:23:45] * RickBrant hacks into everyone's machines and erases that bit from their screens and logs [04:25:34] <[Saint]> In my case, it shouldn't be too difficult, heh. We recently discovered someone had been walking across our network at work for months (where I host the distributed IRC core). [04:26:21] <[Saint]> Oddly, though, they never actually _did_ anything. They were just...there. [04:51:47] I had the cable plugged in [04:51:49] Same results [04:56:06] <[Saint]> There's really no way this can fail, assuming both buttons are functional, this _must_ work, sorry to say it, but it appears to be user error. [04:57:26] <[Saint]> try following along to https://www.youtube.com/v/Y_bIDtBohnE [04:57:41] <[Saint]> make sure you do everything as it displayed, and it most definitely should work. [05:03:36] There are a couple of stages of the problem. [05:03:46] One is to just get the iPod into DFU mode. [05:04:12] Another is to get the boot utility in the host to make taht 64MB partition show up. [05:04:20] Just what is happening there, anyway? [05:04:48] bootstrap [05:04:52] whups [05:05:20] *** Joins: PR0XIDIAN_ (d03626b5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.54.38.181) [05:05:22] What is it that n bootstrap_ipod_classic_itunes.exe does to make the 64 MB partition appear? [05:05:28] ok. So, I'm in a coffee shop with a chrome book. I was using remote desktop to get on my home computer and respond to you. [05:05:47] The net is a bit slow, it wasn't working well, so I'm in the room with a slightly modified username but I'm the same guy [05:05:54] (I left the ipod at home) [05:06:08] Not much experimenting is going to be happening, then. [05:06:15] true (sorry) [05:06:20] but yeah lol [05:06:20] anyways [05:06:34] so, the bootstrap_ipod_classic_itunes.exe boots the ipod into the correct DFU mode. IT says to copy the .ubi file over [05:06:38] but the drive never shows up in windows [05:06:41] it shows up in device manager though [05:07:31] what's the first hardware ID? [05:07:37] Also, I killed all of the itunes/ipod processes in CMD (all user processes) [05:08:10] crap. I don't remember lol. I'm sorry that I'm no longer home, I promised a friend I would meet him here. I was working on the ipod for 2 hours before I had to leave here lol [05:08:29] if you're remoted in, can't you look at it? [05:08:38] its not plugged into the desktop [05:08:40] >_> [05:08:42] LOL [05:08:53] actually. maybe it is [05:08:55] I don't remember [05:08:56] I'll look [05:09:00] but with my luck probably not [05:12:20] the remote connection is slow. Pulling up device manager [05:12:36] its not there. crap. [05:12:46] What should I look for when I get home in like an hour? Or even better, will you still be on here? [05:14:42] I'll be here, but I don't know how much help I can be. [05:15:07] No worries. I appreciate the help. If we run out of options I might ask theseven for assistance. I hear he is the man to ask lol [05:15:18] If you type my nick, it will make a beep and I'll hear it. [05:15:25] with an @ symbol or? [05:15:40] I wonder if I damaged something on the ipod, because I tried getting the partition to show up on both a windows 7 and a windows 8 pc [05:16:14] doesn't need the @ [05:16:24] so just [05:16:28] hello RickBrant [05:16:28] ? [05:16:31] <[Saint]> Gah. I hate that. I just spent an age explaing to the user how to get into DFU mode...and it turns out he's actually talking about UMSboot. [05:16:37] <[Saint]> ACRONYMS, people! :p [05:16:50] See, this isone of my issues. I don't really know what's what with all of these modes. [05:17:40] me either! LOL [05:17:54] I'm a smart guy, lots of tech knowledge. If I could read an overview I'd understand it [05:18:09] I'm assuming that DFU is a recovery mode and the .ubi is essentially ipod firmware. [05:18:30] IT seems like rockbox sits on the hard drive/ssd and then the ipod has a seperate flash chip that holds the bootloader. [05:18:34] Which is what I have to replace. [05:18:42] I could be totally wrong though [05:21:38] <[Saint]> DFU mode (Direct Firmware Upgrade - IIRC) is an Apple "Help, I'm fucked!" mode, present on all Apple personal devices since the iPod Nano 2G, it allows for passing the magic to the device to initiate a firmware upgrade. UMSboot is entirely emCORE specific, we run the bootstrapper to set up the RAMdisk (which is why its 64MB) on the device and then run our .ubi file to it and commence installation. [05:22:49] <[Saint]> And, no, PR0XIDIAN_ - your issue is nothing to do with the device at all I would say. [05:23:05] <[Saint]> A disk doesn't even need to be present in the device _at all_ for this to succeed. [05:23:30] so, my ipod always goes right to UMSboot when I hold the menu and the select button with usb plugged in [05:23:30] <[Saint]> The issue appears to be your host and a driver and/or Apple services snafu. [05:23:41] <[Saint]> No. [05:23:48] <[Saint]> It does not. [05:24:09] I tried it on my steambox (running windows) which didn't have itunes, and has a completely fresh install of windows. (I added itunes and then closed everything) [05:24:24] so, why does it go to UMSboot instead of DFU? [05:24:58] Or, what do I need to do? [05:25:09] <[Saint]> Presumably, because you told it to, by way of running the bootstrapper. [05:25:19] <[Saint]> If you _did not_ do so, it _is not_ going to UMSboot. [05:25:27] <[Saint]> I suspect you're confused. [05:26:40] I could be lol [05:26:47] sorry, I'm not trying to frustrate anyone. [05:26:58] so if it's going to UMSboot then there is no more need to put it in DFU mode? [05:26:59] would recording a video of me trying to put it into DFU mode help? [05:27:09] oh. [05:27:12] <[Saint]> You seem to be using Tarkan's instructions, which I honestly don't pay any attention to at all because its third part and I couldn't really care less about it. [05:27:15] but it boots apple's firmware [05:27:37] <[Saint]> But, we do have a very well written extensive installation walkthrough on the Freemyipod site, here: http://www.freemyipod.org/wiki/EmCORE_Installation [05:27:39] it doesn't boot emcore. [05:28:05] <[Saint]> Well, of course, if it boots the Apple firmware, it can't possibly ever boot emCORE. [05:28:14] what. [05:28:16] <[Saint]> Installation wipes out the Apple firmware _completely_ [05:28:24] ok. I'm goign to record a video. ITs doing exactly that. [05:28:33] well, I should clarify [05:28:54] I can get to the UMS boot screen, but it also boots apple's firmware [05:29:06] when I get to the UMS boot screen, it never pops up the 64MB partition [05:29:30] <[Saint]> Well, that's expected, if you're not pushing any files to the device (.ubi image) then its not installing _anything_ on your device. [05:29:42] <[Saint]> And as soon as you leave UMSboot, everything will be as normal. [05:29:48] ok. [05:29:54] <[Saint]> The issue lies with your host. [05:30:06] But I can't use umsboot to put the .ubi file on [05:30:10] because the partition doesn't show up in windows [05:30:15] <[Saint]> right. [05:30:16] the computer? [05:30:17] <[Saint]> The issue lies with your host. [05:30:19] <[Saint]> yes. [05:30:36] Hmm. Any ideas to fix it? [05:30:57] I tried it on my windows 7 X64 desktop, windows 8.1 desktop, and windows 8.1 laptop [05:31:14] <[Saint]> I would suspect that you're not actually killing all the Apple drivers and services, and that iTunes is attempting to take oevr the dveice. [05:31:16] I could try with linux on my chromebook lol, but I'm more experienced with windows =p [05:31:31] hmm. ok. I killed the services mentinoed in the guide. [05:31:39] I'll give it a shot. [05:31:52] Saint, can you describe just how the boot program makes the 64MB partition appear? [05:32:07] Like I said, I work in I.T., I know how frustrating it is to help someone with user error. I'm sorry I'm having these problems, but I really appreciate the help guys. I'm very grateful that everyone is here to help! :) [05:33:40] <[Saint]> RickBrant: long story made very short and condensed, the bootstrapper tricks the device into thinking its doing a firmware recovery, and via the magic of science and an iPhone exploit we get arbitrary execution, then the device is ours, and we do what we want with it. [05:34:44] <[Saint]> These things have way more in common with the early iPod Touch/iPhone models than they do with, say, the iPod Video. [05:34:58] Nice. LOL I don't know why apple cared if people put custom firmware on ipods. [05:35:11] so the 64MB partition, installing a UBI, etc., is not something that would ever happen with non-Apple firmware. [05:35:11] its pretty silly [05:35:20] Gotcha. [05:35:23] <[Saint]> RickBrant: correct [05:35:45] Hopefully I can figure it out, because I'm 99% sure I killed all of the processes. I'm wondering if its an issue with the newest itunes version. Maybe I'll try finding a really old itunes version online and trying again [05:35:51] <[Saint]> well, .ubi images are a thing, but a user would never normally have to interact with the device in this fashion at all. [05:36:48] I just want something I can't buy lol. An MP3 player with more than 128GB of storage. ITs frustrating to create, but the only way was to make it myself lol [05:36:55] And if you have emcore installed and you boot it and you run UMSboot, that gets you to the same state as if you'd put the normal iPod in DFU mode and successfully run the bootstrap? The 64MB that shos up is the same thing? [05:37:09] <[Saint]> Correct. [05:37:29] PR0XIDIAN: you can always buy a 7th and put your 256gb sd in there, they handle the larger "drives" ok. [05:37:51] I also want support for FLAC files. [05:38:06] Plus, I'm a college student and I've already put more money into this project than I should have XD [05:38:12] <[Saint]> What's wrong with ALAC? ...lol [05:38:20] * [Saint] stabs himself in the face for suggesting that [05:38:38] hahaha [05:38:42] I hate the stock firmwaer [05:38:49] Iwas running rockbox successfully before I installed the SSD [05:39:22] After putting in the SSD, I ran the rockbox fallback image. Then I coppied the rockbox installer over to the ipod. [05:39:49] the ipod randomly died mid-sync with music. Then it was in a boot loop. The only way I fixed it was by doing the itunes restore. [05:40:05] which works fine, but left me here. Unable to get rockbox reinstalled lol [05:40:36] <[Saint]> its too late now, but you could have forced the emCORE main menu on boot, and then formatted the data partition, and tried again. [05:41:05] fuck [05:41:16] oh. Sorry, I don't know if swearing is discouraged here. Sorry if I offended anyone [05:41:46] I actually tried formatting the data partition from emcore. After 40 minutes nothing happened so I did the restore. Maybe I should have waited longer [05:41:53] <[Saint]> heh - nah, a 'fuck' was quite appropriate given the circumstance. [05:42:15] In the middle of the "format data partition" the battery died even while on the charger. I thought it was permenantly bricked which is why I did what I did. [05:42:17] <[Saint]> Oh...hmmm. Nah, that's really weird. [05:42:20] Hey, there's another Q I had (since Saint is awake :) ) - exactly what does "formatting the data partition" clobber? [05:42:24] <[Saint]> The format should take a matter of seconds. [05:42:31] and what does it leave? [05:43:07] <[Saint]> It leaves absolutely nothing. It just makes the entire accessible disk into one giant superfloppy volume. [05:43:21] so, if it took that long, I was screwed anyways? [05:44:06] <[Saint]> PR0XIDIAN_: that seems likely, indeed. Formatting the volume should take a matter of seconds on a spinning platter, a lot less on an SSD. [05:44:18] ok. Hmm. [05:44:26] Is the 64MB partition flash memory, or on the SSD? [05:44:37] <[Saint]> It would appear that your device has some issues communicating with the disk, but, that's quite a bit above my head. [05:44:47] <[Saint]> PR0XIDIAN_: its memory, a RAMdisk. [05:44:48] if its on the SSD, I'll try taking it out and formatting the SSD. Tarkin said if the drive got messed up you had to pull them out and format with a PC sometimes. [05:44:56] ok. [05:45:04] so the issues I had shouldn't be causing the problems I'm having? [05:45:34] <[Saint]> It seems as though the device can't communicate with the SSD. [05:45:40] <[Saint]> For what reason, I'm unsure. [05:45:58] I have a suggestion (Saint, feel free to say NOOO! :) ): [05:45:59] Hmm. Strange though, because I can do an itunes sync with the official firmware. It just sees 128GB instead of 256 [05:46:34] <[Saint]> Hmm. That's weird. [05:46:59] LOL exactly. I'm running into the most strange issue [05:47:21] *issues [05:47:42] <[Saint]> TheSeven, the project leader/head developer, is the best one to comment on such issues when they get this far into "Weird Shit Territory". [05:48:00] haha ok. [05:48:09] When is he usually on? [05:48:18] <[Saint]> I'm comfortable playing around with software, but when you throw hardware weirdness into the mix as well, its above my head. [05:48:39] No worries man [05:48:47] Like I said, Sorry I'm so difficult to help. I really appreciate you trying [05:49:23] <[Saint]> Its approximately 4am in his locale presently. [05:49:46] ah. I'm in mountain time lol. Colorado! :P [05:49:53] 8:40PM here. [05:49:57] *49 [05:54:24] I'm going to try taking the SSD out of my ipod when I get home, formatting it in windows, and starting again. If that doesn't work I'll try to catch the seven lol [05:55:27] PR0XIDIAN: do you have that free formatter? Aomei? Useful for doing a block-level wipe, if nothing else. [05:58:40] no but I could get it. I have an M-sata - Sata adapter in my chromebook. I used it to upgrade the chromebook SSD so I could put linux on it [05:58:50] I'll just pull that out and plug it into my desktop [05:59:04] but I'm really pissed to take the ipod apart again. I messed up the case last time Q_Q [05:59:04] you're using an msata drive in the ipod? Which one? [05:59:18] That is expected when opening a classic 6 or 7. [05:59:35] <[Saint]> IFF you use the wrong tools. [05:59:54] <[Saint]> Opening it with anything harder than it is is a bit of a fail. [05:59:59] tarkin's adapter plus one from his approved list here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LNEWN98/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 [06:00:00] The plastic openers that work well on the earlier ones are useless. [06:00:13] yep. I have the ifixit kit. [06:00:22] It isn't pretty, but I got it back together. [06:00:26] <[Saint]> I have a rubberized metalic spudger that works fine. [06:00:56] I have a metalic spudger. Still, the clips are a bitch [06:01:14] I bought the cable tarkin recomends. Firewire/usb [06:01:21] so I can charge it from a wall socket while syncing [06:01:31] Because thats what got me in this mess in the first place. [06:01:38] was the battery dying during sync [06:01:52] <[Saint]> regarding solid state storage, I recently purchased one of those foolishly expensive mini-PCIe drives for the as yet unused mini-PCIe slot in this desktop. [06:02:03] <[Saint]> Fucking _faaaaaaaaaaast_. [06:02:03] yah, the msata ssds are hugely power-hungry. [06:02:05] nice [06:02:19] it is. I probably should have gotten the card reader varient. But meh. [06:02:21] At least to judge by how hot they get.... [06:02:36] it uses 3 watts while writing [06:02:41] 1.5 while reading [06:02:56] Doesn't sound like much, but in that tiny volume.... [06:03:02] yeah [06:07:01] Thats why I upgraded the battery [06:07:39] <[Saint]> You can't really realistically get more than 1A in there. [06:07:58] It wasn't by much [06:08:00] <[Saint]> the 850mA ones in the "fat" model is a bit of a stretch to be honest. [06:08:04] anyways, I'll be back on later [06:08:07] <[Saint]> o/ [06:08:17] my case doesn't fit 100% anymore XD [06:08:24] its slightly too big [06:09:20] YOu can get replacements on ebay for cheap. $6 or so. [06:09:32] Oh, the BATTERY is too big. [06:09:43] I thought you meant the case was slightly too big, from the opening efforts :) [06:12:34] *** Quits: PR0XIDIAN_ (d03626b5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.54.38.181) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [06:54:30] *** Quits: TheSeven (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [06:55:22] *** Joins: TheSeven (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) [07:29:05] *** Parts: RickBrant (~jeh@ip68-7-211-199.sd.sd.cox.net) () [07:29:25] *** Joins: RickBrant (~jeh@ip68-7-211-199.sd.sd.cox.net) [07:29:29] oops [08:31:48] Hey TheSeven are you there? [08:53:48] http://puu.sh/eWRAH/c101e92d0e.jpg [08:55:09] Ipod says "UMSboot v0.1.0 r674 please copy a UBI file to the mass storage device and safely eject and unplug it" problem is. the 64mb partition doesn't mount in windows. It shows up in device manager as UMSboot ramdisk usb device though [08:55:52] <[Saint]> I suspect a "real system" ie. non-Windows will mount it happily. [09:33:16] oh, now... :) [09:36:12] I *think* that if you have that message on your iPod, you already have emcore on your ipod. [09:36:45] Mine says similar, but r859. [09:37:02] And the 64 MB voluem shows up in Windows 7. [09:37:02] <[Saint]> not necessarily, no. [09:37:18] Oh, I see. [09:37:29] <[Saint]> it could be that its just fired up UMSboot from the bootstrapper. [09:37:33] Got it. [09:37:40] <[Saint]> In that case, if it reboots, it'll be blown away. [09:38:20] PR0X, my ipod w/emcore + rockbox is in that state now, and the 64MB volume does show up [09:38:27] with volume name UMSboot [09:38:35] <[Saint]> regarding Windows * and USB - Its demonstrably broken, working in this area yourself, I think you'd find it difficult (though not impossible) to disagree. [09:40:30] To which brokenness do you refer? [09:41:08] Fact remains that a whole lot of USB mass storage class devices do work on Windows. Not sure why this one should be having such troubles. [09:42:00] PR0X: You disabled the apple mobile device service, didn't you? [09:43:51] PR0X: What's the most specific hardware ID for the "UMSboot RAMDISK USB Device" (I see the same devicename here) [09:44:17] the hardware ID here shows uas USBSTOR\DiskUMSboot_RAMDISK____(bunch of _'s)__0.1 [09:44:25] and then same but without the version number [09:44:42] and then USBSTOR\DiskUMSboot_ [09:45:04] and then a couple of other variations, with USBSTOR\GenDisk and then just GenDisk at the end [09:45:52] this is on windows 7 sp1 x64 with itunes 12.0.1.26 installed. [09:45:57] <[Saint]> Well, maybe that holds true when you've actually got datasheets to work with, but it sure isn't the case with a lot of Rockbox's USB drivers, and its not as though those working on them haven't a clue. [09:46:29] <[Saint]> It got to the point here at one stage where it was common for us to say "Are you using $windows_OS?; ...don't" [09:47:21] I understand, but what you're saying is "are you among about 90% of computer users? We don't serve your kind here" [09:47:37] <[Saint]> And, that's largely true. [09:47:38] <[Saint]> We don't. [09:47:59] <[Saint]> Its always been "by developers, for developers" [09:48:23] <[Saint]> How Joe Average started to hear of this project, or Rockbox, is beyond me. [09:48:30] <[Saint]> It certainly wasn't intentional. [09:48:53] Well in my case, I came to it through a fork [09:49:54] <[Saint]> Generally speaking, if none of us can successfully massage a user through getting Windows to actually recognize the device, we'll just ask the user employ a LiveCD/USB/DVD [09:50:18] <[Saint]> at which point it'll "Just Work", IFF said user can read and follow instruction. [09:50:52] Quite a few years ago I had a hard drive based MP3 car player called a "neo35", by a company called "ssi america". Someone had taken an early version of Rockbox, forked it, and ported it to that player. [09:51:08] <[Saint]> I don't think I've ever had a user end up backing out of a linux-based distro install, vs. countless times we've ended up having to give up on Windows systems. [09:51:20] (I understand the Rockbox folks and that person didn't get along) [09:52:38] <[Saint]> The only think I can think of that would've prohibited a new port port that I can think of are: licensing issues (use of non-free tools or libraries incompatible with the GPL), and style guidelines. [09:52:56] <[Saint]> I sincerely doubt it was personal. [09:53:22] I don't know. [09:53:42] <[Saint]> Oh - or failure to provide a Real Name [09:53:46] <[Saint]> (licensing issues again) [09:54:22] <[Saint]> There's been plenty of contributors that are largely objectionable people. Heh. [09:54:36] <[Saint]> But code is code. [09:55:42] I don't know what the issue was. [10:01:14] <[Saint]> Hmmm. I can find very little information on it. [10:01:39] <[Saint]> Which is probably not terribly surprising, it didn't appear to be particularly popular even when it wasn't EOL. [10:02:22] Some developer known on the Rockbox forums as "knobby", from what I gather. [10:02:33] <[Saint]> and mrskippy, yeah. [10:02:38] yes! mrskippy. [10:04:03] The neo35 hasn't been a current product for a long time. Since so many car head units support either USB, or an Aux input, or an iPod, or music played over Bluetooth, the need for a separate box in your trunk to play MP3s is gone. [10:04:43] if you have an aux in to connect the neo35, you can connect an ipod or an android or... [10:05:36] but with the rockbox port the neo35 could handle a much larger hard drive than any handheld devices could have, at the time. [10:10:49] Anyway... PR0XIDIAN, where are you? [10:11:12] PR0X: What's the most specific hardware ID for the "UMSboot RAMDISK USB Device"? (I see the same devicename here) [10:11:48] hang on [10:11:52] I'm reading through the backlog of messages [10:11:55] I didn't see them until now [10:13:18] LOL! I'm not an average Joe. I already told you. I have linux dualbooted on all of my systems. I'm in school to be a programmer (computer science) [10:14:19] * RickBrant wonders idly if this [Saint] ever answers to "Simon" [10:14:31] <[Saint]> He does not. [10:14:53] ok. So you guys want the hardware id? [10:15:30] <[Saint]> huh? and no, just the same as the original. [10:15:34] Well, I do. [10:16:30] here [10:16:32] http://puu.sh/eWYEn/028861bf9f.png [10:16:45] I pasted it in notepad so there wouldn't be a scrollbar [10:17:12] *** Quits: PR0XIDIAN (18086f9f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.8.111.159) (Quit: Page closed) [10:17:27] *** Joins: PR0XIDIAN (18086f9f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.8.111.159) [10:17:37] did I just get kicked for posting a link? lol [10:17:44] <[Saint]> nope, you quit [10:17:53] <[Saint]> <-- PR0XIDIAN (18086f9f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.8.111.159) has quit (Quit: Page closed) [10:18:06] weird o.0 [10:18:18] internet hiccup maybe? lol idk [10:19:07] Anyways, was that the ID you wanted? [10:19:50] clsoe enough. Does it show up in Disk Manager? [10:21:57] Disk manager won't load. Just says "loading disk configuration information" Which is what it does when a failed hard drive is plugged in [10:22:09] SAme with the CMD version (diskpart) [10:22:38] nevermind. It finally loaded [10:22:54] hmm [10:23:04] IT shows up there as online, but it doesn't have a drive letter. Let me try to assign it one [10:23:15] lol [10:23:19] error when I try to assign it a drive letter [10:24:59] can I format the 64mb disk Saint? http://puu.sh/eWZkJ/f4f6af1fcc.png [10:26:04] Having all of your drives but one show up as "free: 0 B" looks... odd. [10:26:20] lol they are all online and working [10:26:22] Oh... these are physical disks, not volumes. Right. [10:26:34] yeah [10:26:40] Anyways. Can I format the 64mb disc? [10:26:46] I don't know what format its supposed to be [10:26:48] I'm guessing fat32 [10:27:32] Well, i can tell you this much: If Windows doesn't see a FAT32 MBR with FAT32 VBR, it's never going to mount it. [10:27:57] I mounted it on this same computer a week ago [10:28:02] back when my ipod had the HDD instead of the SSD [10:28:02] actually, scratch the "fat32 mbr", replace with "mbr" [10:28:13] yeah, but this is a RAMdrive, created from whole cloth [10:28:33] is formatting it a bad idea? [10:28:37] Does anyone know? [10:28:53] and the emcore boot should have pre-populated it with partition structure before presenting it [10:29:21] I can't imagine that formatting it would hurt anything. It's supposed to be formatted [10:29:30] hmm [10:29:32] Fat 32? [10:29:36] and it's all in RAM, so it will disappear the next time you power-cycle it [10:29:37] I'll try to format it with CMD lol [10:29:41] gotcha [10:29:41] are reboot it, or whatever [10:29:43] I love ramdiscs. [10:30:01] My computer has 32GB of ram. I make ramdisks and play games off them sometimes lol. [10:31:15] Interesting. Here it just calls it "FAT" [10:31:25] I suppose for 64MB it doesn't matter. [10:31:37] So if you can format it as plain ol' fat, do that. [10:31:41] hmm [10:31:46] getting an error when I try to format it [10:31:49] I'm going to reboot my computer [10:31:50] brb gents [10:31:58] *** Quits: PR0XIDIAN (18086f9f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.8.111.159) (Quit: Page closed) [10:33:59] "Sadly, PR0Xidian was never able to boot his computer again. The End." [10:34:39] *** Joins: PR0XIDIAN (18086f9f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.8.111.159) [10:34:44] I love SSDs lol [10:37:04] now I'm back to system couldn't find the file specified lol [10:37:11] *le sigh* [10:38:38] Yeah, I can't even get it to show up in disk management now. Strange. [10:39:05] http://puu.sh/eX0nZ/0bbea2951d.jpg [10:39:35] is the DFU device in device manager? [10:39:42] (Done F'd Up) [10:39:47] not right now lol [10:40:15] Then... it's not really in DFU mode? or itunes has claimed the device. [10:42:17] hmm. [10:42:22] it was working before my reboot XD [10:42:59] I forced closed all of the itunes/apple/ipod processes, then I stopped the apple mobile device service. [10:44:52] does that service need to be running? [10:52:29] I give up for tonight lol. Thanks for your help everyone. I'm off to bed [10:52:44] <[Saint]> [24:01:15 21:24:59] can I format the 64mb disk Saint? http://puu.sh/eWZkJ/f4f6af1fcc.png <-- why the fuck would you? [10:53:05] <[Saint]> I mean, sorry, but if this is going to devolve into "I'll just try random shit and hope something sticks", I'm out. [11:07:56] Understood, but sometimes "trying random shit" is a useful debugging tool. [11:08:15] If you have nothing to suggest a more methodical path. [11:08:44] My logic is: The device is appearing in device manager... and in disk manager but with no file system... which is why it doesn't show in explorer. [11:09:10] SO it appears to not have MBR (with partition table) + VBR + file system on it. [11:10:10] My next step would be to try a block-level disk dumper on it, but I don't know if PR0X has any such tool. [11:14:12] Right now I wish I had a spare 6 to experiment on, with my USB probe in there - maybe I can figure out why the "variations" are happening. But as it is I'm not going to restart from scratch on my working one. [11:15:44] <[Saint]> My guess is its the driver failing to communicate these parameters [11:16:00] <[Saint]> The disk most certainly is setup with a valid filesystem. [11:16:13] <[Saint]> But this information doesn't appear to be getting to the host. [11:16:47] <[Saint]> I would really like to see what happens watching dmesg on a non-Windows host. [11:17:14] <[Saint]> But the likely thing there is it'll 'Just Work', and there'd be no need to. [11:19:53] Yeah. In fact I'm not even seeing the issue he is. As far as mounting the UMSboot partition goes, that "just works". So I can't really diagnose taht either. [11:21:39] <[Saint]> I think the, or at least an, underlying issue is that *nix based OSes seem to be, for better or worse, more...hmmm...permissive? [11:22:06] But why we both have so much trouble getting from DFU mode to the 64MB partition being available, with all these various errors from the bootstrap program, I don't know. My suspicion is either interference from the apple sottware, or some sort of race condition. [11:23:14] <[Saint]> There's one very specific error that the bootstrapper _should_ show, I suspect this may actually be the error you're talking about. [11:23:27] <[Saint]> And, rather counterintuitively, not seeing that error would be a problem. [11:23:39] The first time I tried it, it didn't work until I ran b_i_i.exe as admin. [11:23:40] <[Saint]> Its just Windows freaking out that a device vanished and re-appeared. [11:24:23] <[Saint]> There's only one error I'm aware of that the bootstrapper will throw reliably on Windows, and not seeing it would indicate a failure, and seeing it indicates success. [11:24:43] <[Saint]> somewhat counterintuitive, indeed. [11:25:00] Yeah. I didn't keep the text, but I remember something that I think is taht - "oh, there's an error message in the character mode window. Oh wait, the 64 MB part is there!" [11:25:30] <[Saint]> Yeah, its pretty much translates to "we successfully grabbed the hardware" [11:25:48] <[Saint]> for lack of a more technical way of describing it. [11:25:50] ok, that's good info. If I get another device to experiment on I will try to copy that text and suggest an update to the wiki page. [11:26:08] Sure. Because of what you do to the DFU device, the DFU device disappears. [11:26:17] <[Saint]> right. [11:27:17] Is b_i_i something you distribute source for? Could I look at it, built it, run it under a debugger, mod it to be a little more robust and/or informative? [11:28:35] <[Saint]> sure, http://websvn.freemyipod.org/listing.php?repname=freemyipod [11:29:16] ok. This will have to be a "later" thing, since a) I don't have a spare ipod right now, and b) I have a writing project that's overdue. [11:29:34] But it seems like a good project, and something to use some USB tools on. [11:29:45] <[Saint]> Yes, we're all experiencing a case of the "Real Life Blues" lately. [11:29:59] <[Saint]> I'm a bit lucky, as my work allows for me to (at times) sit on my arse all day on IRC. [11:30:57] heh. I used to have a FT job like that. [11:31:54] I was responsible for dev and maint for drivers for the co's products. Well, I write good code, so the "maintenance" job was fairly small :) [16:00:16] *** Joins: benedikt93 (~benedikt9@unaffiliated/benedikt93) [16:41:36] *** Quits: benedikt93 (~benedikt9@unaffiliated/benedikt93) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) [17:51:54] *** Joins: user890104 (Venci@unaffiliated/user890104) [17:52:06] *** Server sets mode: +nt [17:52:18] *** Server sets mode: +nt [18:22:53] *** [Saint] is now known as [Sinner] [18:25:33] *** [Sinner] is now known as [Saint] [18:26:11] *** Quits: [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint) (Quit: Quit.) [18:26:30] *** Joins: [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint) [18:27:19] *** Parts: [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint) () [18:36:09] *** Joins: [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint) [19:23:30] gah, heaps of backlog, not gonna read all of that [19:23:34] any problems remaining? [19:24:28] <[Saint]> yeah, PROXIWHATEVRTHEFUCKITWAS can't get UMSboot to mount, and has a "real machine" on hand, but for some reason seems to do everything _but_ using it. [19:24:43] I'll try it today [19:24:44] lol [19:24:57] regarding that device manager screenshot, I'm really wondering what windows disk management will show [19:25:14] Is there a guide for doing it with linux? I have linux mint on my Alienware laptop, I'll try it there. [19:25:45] it's rather unusual for explorer to show nothing when a thumbdrive style volume is visible in device manager, but it can be done by e.g. removing its drive letter in disk management [19:26:08] Thats the thing. I get an error when I try to assign a drive letter [19:26:20] ok, interesting. which particular error? [19:26:36] does it see a partition or just an uninitialized disk? [19:27:08] I can't quote it exactly, because I can't reproduce it now, but it basically said that the disk management window wasn't current, it needed a refresh, and to reboot the system if the error persisted. [19:27:24] it sees the partition, but it doesn't list what format it is. [19:27:31] which is why I wondered if I had to format it. [19:27:52] it should be preformatted by umsboot [19:27:56] I have to leave for class in 30 minutes, but I can try this in linux before then if someone has a guide. [19:28:01] I figured. [19:28:01] and windows should show it as FAT [19:28:06] gotcha [19:28:14] I tried in windows 7 and 8.1 (x64) [19:28:22] both doing the same crap? [19:28:32] which umsboot version is that? [19:28:34] yeah [19:28:37] This process worked perfectly a week ago on this same computer before I replaced the HDD with the SSD with tarkin's adapter [19:29:11] hm, can't really see how that could possibly be related to each other, but who knows... [19:29:26] anyway, what happens if you boot umsboot and then connect the ipod to a linux computer? [19:29:39] <[Saint]> we've yet to see that. [19:29:41] does it show up as a disk, and if not, what does dmesg say? [19:29:47] *Shrugs* just trying to give any info I think might be relevant lol. I appreciate the help! I know its frustrating to help someone when nothing goes as expected. [19:30:02]