[00:00:13] in less than 15 seconds it loops to the emcore page and back repeatedly, probably 6 or 7 times in that time span [00:00:17] <[Saint]> Among the pieces of hardware that are not required for boot are, surprisingly, a HDD, a battery, and an LCD. [00:01:21] <[Saint]> Are you positive you're using the Menu and Select keys? And not perhaps Play/Pause and Select? [00:01:57] think somebody has fucked about with both the bootloader for itunes and rockbox at the same time if that makes sense [00:01:59] <[Saint]> For emCORE to be able to boot, DFU mode should be absolutely 100% accessible. [00:02:14] <[Saint]> They did, absolutely. That's exactly what emCORE is. [00:02:33] <[Saint]> But I pretty much absolutely guarantee you that no one modified the emCORE bianry. [00:03:15] <[Saint]> If emCORE can boot, there's absolutely zero reason why the device shouldn't be able to enter DFU mode. [00:04:07] <[Saint]> And I would indeed be willing to place a large sum of money on the gamble that no one interfered with emCORE's codebase or functionality. [00:04:19] i think you have nailed it earlier with the low power issue, i would like to leave on charge then try again later [00:05:04] <[Saint]> Well, it certainly can't hurt. Though, the device should be getting all the power it needs over USB. [00:05:46] <[Saint]> Even if the battery is very badly discharged, if it booted, and has power over USB, that 500mA is enough to sustain it. [00:06:31] <[Saint]> But it can't hurt to try and see if charging it for a sustained period of time has an appreciable affect. [00:09:22] hm, I guess there's indeed a way to "brick" DFU [00:09:37] i still have a boot menu UMSboot and other controls in settings so dont believe its all over, thats the fun learning part, lets see what happens in 24hrs many thanks [00:09:39] that is never getting there by causing a power brownout before the reset at 5sec [00:10:07] IIUC a strong enough power supply should be able to overcome that though, even with a completely dead battery [00:10:44] I think the battery is very deeply drained [00:11:02] probably not only that but completely failed [00:11:31] even a deeply discharged battery usually comes back up to a point where it can spin up the HDD in less than 5 minutes with the ipod powered off [00:12:24] I haven't completely read the backlog, so let me confirm the behavior that you're observing: the ipod boots up "normally" into emCORE boot menu, and you can launch things like UMSboot [00:12:51] however, if you press and hold menu+select for 10 seconds, you see more than 2 emCORE boot cycles? [00:13:19] you know it could be a failed battery issue as well will know in 24 rather than speculate [00:13:44] how far did it get during these "boot attempts"? [00:13:54] did it show the boot menu? or just the emcore kernel version in the top left corner? [00:13:57] yes 10 seconds probably 5 or 6 cycles [00:14:37] both those screens but the emcore for a split second [00:15:08] and if you don't press menu+select you get the boot menu and can navigate it normally? [00:15:58] yes through all the settings but will not load rb [00:16:08] that seems completely bogus. never seen that before. and I don't see how that could be caused by the battery. [00:16:55] can you tell me the rockbox kernel version that is displayed at the top of the screen briefly during boot? especially the "rXXX" part behind the version number? [00:17:48] well this tired bogus chap needs his bed, v early start, will do that now as its power from wall socket [00:21:29] ok does this make sense v0.23r859 [00:24:55] <[Saint]> Feel free to idle, we'll be here when you wake up. [00:25:46] <[Saint]> I'm with TheSeven in so far as this really doesn't seem like it has the obvious hallmarks of a bad battery. [00:26:07] cheers guys thanks for your help, head hitting pillow shortly [00:26:19] <[Saint]> But the very weird thing is that if the hardware is intact enough to allow emCORE booting there's no obvious reason why DFU mode couldn't also be reached. [00:26:26] * [Saint] nods [00:26:33] <[Saint]> Well, we'll be here. Sleep well. [00:26:41] ginger nods [00:26:52] r859 is before the more intelligent low battery and DFU button handling was introduced, right? so we can rule out a bug in that as well... [00:27:22] <[Saint]> Yeah. I mean, it's not as intelligent as it could be, but, vastly more so than prior releases. [00:27:39] hm, how could it be more intelligent? [00:27:42] <[Saint]> Even if that weren't the case it should be able to power itself exclusively from USB. [00:28:31] the only remotely plausible thing that I could thing of would be the handling code for that somehow running into a crash/reboot before the clickwheel fires the second reset, thereby resetting the clickwheel and possibly cancelling the DFU sequence, if that is even possible. [00:28:32] <[Saint]> TheSeven: I was thinking about it and there doesn't seem to be any obvious reason to spin up the disk except for when we're actually exiting emCORE, and only if settings changed. [00:28:45] guys give it 24, only got the device in my hands 3 hours ago, it feels different booting from the wall socket than it did connected via usb ???? [00:28:51] but if that code isn't even in that build, that can't be it. [00:29:37] emcore spins up the disk before showing the boot menu anyway, so it obviously manages to do so [00:30:16] you can feel the disk spinning more when in the wall socket [00:30:20] maybe a faulty clickwheel controller? that's about the only thing left, but that's completely unheard of. [00:31:00] zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz time for bed zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz [00:31:15] ginger: if you want that thing to charge the battery overnight, power it down, lock the hold switch, then plug it into any power source [00:31:37] done [00:31:43] that would do a slow 100mA charge, but even that will reach fully charged in about 8 hours [00:31:49] <[Saint]> TheSeven: yeah, but that leads to a chicken<-> egg type scenario - we'd really need to restore the device to be able to get useful quantifiable hardware state info [00:32:21] *** Quits: ginger (52089f21@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.8.159.33) (Quit: Page closed) [00:32:36] <[Saint]> Well...so much for idling. [00:33:19] <[Saint]> Honestly I'm really not entirely convinced that this isn't PEBCAK. [00:33:28] <[Saint]> But perhaps I'm just a cynical old bastard. [00:34:21] <[Saint]> I know from experience handling support here that there's a wide and varied amount of ways a user can fuck up entering DFU mode while swearing that they are doing everything correctly and as described/requested. [00:34:49] <[Saint]> It really doesn't seem like there's a lot of room for error in entering DFU mode, but, I've been constantly amazed by this. [00:40:37] only PEBCAK case that I could think of would be someone who really doesn't know what a second is. by a factor of 5 or so. [00:41:10] there's just no way to get that thing to reboot 6-7 times in 10 seconds, up to the boot menu [00:41:53] so if he comes back, maybe ask him for a video of what the ipod is doing to get a more precise idea of what's really going on there? [00:42:13] would be especially interesting if the first reboot on the way to DFU somehow takes longer than subsequent ones etc. [00:42:58] i.e. if the CWC issues the first reset after less than 5 seconds of pressing menu+select, or just starts spamming resets after that [06:30:55] *** Quits: krnlyng (~liar@77.116.66.179.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [06:37:27] *** Joins: krnlyng (~liar@77.116.66.179.wireless.dyn.drei.com) [06:41:15] *** Quits: TheSeven (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [06:42:43] *** Joins: TheSeven (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) [17:33:00] *** Quits: slenselink__ (~STeeF@office.hostnetbv.nl) (Remote host closed the connection) [19:39:24] *** Quits: krnlyng (~liar@77.116.66.179.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [19:55:49] *** Joins: krnlyng (~liar@178.112.135.230.wireless.dyn.drei.com) [21:32:11] *** Quits: krnlyng (~liar@178.112.135.230.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [21:38:28] *** Joins: ginger (52089f21@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.8.159.33) [21:39:39] *** Joins: krnlyng (~liar@178.112.135.230.wireless.dyn.drei.com) [21:39:55] hi update from last night ipod battery is completely dead after 24 hrs on charge [21:41:26] have ipod connected recognised on umsboot can see the folder but thats it [21:43:17] so unplug from any power source wall socket or usb ipod dead [21:49:15] ginger: are you going to replace the battery [21:50:06] the boot menu screen shows power button, rockbox,emcore conole and tools, pressing rb comes up with loading rockbox.ipod failed trying fallback image...returning back to rb button [21:50:42] think i may have to replace battery [21:52:12] ebay seller failed to mention dead battery lol [21:53:28] although he did say it was parts only, didnt realise he had it plugged into usb to activate screen [21:53:48] can you make a video (with a phone for example) of what you do to enter DFU mode? maybe we can spot the mistake? [21:54:12] just read the conversation from yesterday [21:55:28] yes it just keeps going round and round in never ending circles [21:56:57] so a fucked up rockbox software a fucked up apple software and a dead battery lol [21:57:53] thought it might be an easy reinstall of rockbox never wanted the apple stuff [21:59:26] a strange thing is i see the folder in umsboot but cannot copy anything to it ??? does that make any sense [21:59:51] yes, sometimes it doesn't work on windows [22:00:25] if you manage to enter DFU mode, you can reinstall the apple software [22:00:32] or reinstall emcore+rockbox [22:00:48] or install the dual-boot bootloader, and have the best of both worlds :) [22:01:14] so please make a video of pressing the menu and center buttons for 12 seconds [22:01:37] and try to focus the ipod screen so we can read all the text that appears [22:01:57] it can help us more than you think [22:02:05] will do [22:02:23] thanks [22:05:03] the non-booting rockbox seems more like a hardware (power supply) issue than anything else [22:05:11] you pretty surely have a dead battery or power manager chip [22:05:28] I'm just confused why emCORE even manages to get to the boot menu here [22:05:46] ok made a vid excuse the wife sneezing in the background how do i get it to you [22:18:20] www.youtube.com/watch?v=e95aIUbgO_c [22:35:11] ok, so the ipod reboots itself for some reason, and that breaks the DFU timing [22:35:16] TheSeven: ping [22:35:33] so am i trying to enter dfu correctly? does it make a difference trying to enter dfu plugged in a power supply/usb [22:35:43] it does [22:35:53] you need to use a computer, not a charger [22:36:36] the vid its connected to a pc [22:36:50] yes, i heard the usb connect/disconnect sound [22:37:02] just wait for TheSeven to come online [22:37:11] he is the main developer of emCORE [22:37:18] as well as the wife lol [22:37:26] yeah, that too :) [22:38:35] remember i have no history on this ipod, it could have been a box of bits thrown together [22:40:19] we have a debugging interface to emCORE via USB as a last resort [22:40:58] can you download zadig and start it? [22:41:07] http://zadig.akeo.ie/ [22:41:26] you'll need a custom driver in order to access the debugging mode [22:41:54] sure this is not above my pay grade lol [22:43:16] well, driver installation is the easy part [22:44:25] done i think just looking [22:45:16] Options -> List all devices [22:45:30] do you see emCORE Debugger or something like that? [22:45:49] ok done that proramme open with emcore debugger [22:46:11] press the big button [22:46:25] Install driver [22:46:36] driver installed [22:47:47] ok, which version of Windows are you using? [22:48:06] windows 10 [22:49:48] ok, i'll try to find some files that you'll need, and send you a download link of the package [22:50:04] many thanks [23:53:22] *** Quits: ginger (52089f21@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.8.159.33) (Quit: Page closed) [23:53:41] *** Joins: ginger (52089f21@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.8.159.33) [23:55:10] *** Quits: ginger (52089f21@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.8.159.33) (Client Quit) [23:55:33] *** Joins: ginger (52089f21@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.8.159.33)