--- Log opened Sun Jan 09 00:00:31 2011
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01:10 < timccccc> hey, i could use some help installing from linux
01:10 < timccccc> lsusb shows Bus 001 Device 009: ID 05ac:1223 Apple, Inc. iPod Classic/Nano 3.Gen (DFU mode)
01:11 < sinless> Hello,the new rockbox build made display even wrose
01:11 < timccccc> but the ipod doesn't show up in mount
01:12 < XQYZ> sinless: update rockbox to the newest version
01:12 < timccccc> so, what to do now? 
01:12 < XQYZ> the updater just kept the old version
01:12 < sinless> yes,the new version is worse
01:12 < XQYZ> http://build.rockbox.org/data/rockbox-ipodclassic.zip
01:12 < XQYZ> the installer kept the old version
01:12 < XQYZ> which doesnt work with the newer stuff
01:13 < XQYZ> timccccc: you don't need to mount it
01:13 < sinless> Do you mean we cannot using the new rockbox build?
01:13 < XQYZ> sinless: did you update rockbox after you used the installer?
01:14 < timccccc> thanks XQYZ: i know you said i to flash the dfu on there. how?
01:14 < sinless> yes,i install iloader and then delete the old rockbox,and copied Version: r29009 into it
01:14 < timccccc> dd to where...
01:15 < XQYZ> sinless: the one from the url i provided?
01:15 < sinless> yes
01:15 < XQYZ> timccccc: what? did you flash the bootstrap already?
01:15 < timccccc> no
01:16 < sinless> XQYZ: the new build Version: r29009 made display more worse,now ,half the screen freeze at iloader,the other half show rockbox's menu with a mess
01:16 < XQYZ> timccccc: you need to get the python flashing tool from svn then
01:17 < XQYZ> sinless: then you'll need to talk to TheSeven, worked perfectly for me
01:17 < XQYZ> timccccc: get the python flasher from svn then
01:17 < XQYZ> links in the wiki
01:18 < sinless> XQYZ:You also have display trouble with the old building?
01:18 < XQYZ> yeah it was corrupted before
01:18 < XQYZ> but now everything is nice and working
01:18 < XQYZ> what ipod do you use?
01:18 < XQYZ> or what gen?
01:18 < sinless> 3
01:19 < XQYZ> well i'm on 1G
01:19 < sinless> I used to have the same trouble with you..
01:19 < sinless> but now more worse..
01:19 < XQYZ> but I think TheSeven tested it on a 3G
01:19 < XQYZ> you'll have to talk to him then
01:19 < XQYZ> i don't think he's online atm thought
01:20 < sinless> Yeah..his 3G works well with the pervious build
01:20 < sinless> maybe my classic has a type3 lcd..
01:20 < XQYZ> mine has a type 3
01:20 < XQYZ> that was the problem
01:21 < XQYZ> now it's fixed for me
01:21 < sinless> type 4 for me..
01:21 < XQYZ> there's a type 4?
01:21 < sinless> maybe
01:21 < [Saint]> 4 distinct types
01:21 < XQYZ> i thought it was 1 to 3 only
01:21 < [Saint]> 2 of those use the same command set though.
01:22 < sinless> I took apart 17 classic,and saw 4 types
01:22 < sinless> the SN printed on the back of the screen are different
01:23 < sinless> I think the screen have at least 4 types
01:23 < sinless> 1.samsung,2.toshiba,3.titachi,4.AUO
01:23 < sinless> one factory,one type
01:24 < [Saint]> AFAIK there are 4 types that can be distinguished by software, but 2 of those use the same command set...so there is essentially only  3.
01:25 < sinless> OK,SOLVED..
01:25 < XQYZ> how?
01:25 < sinless> theseven's new xp driver incoulded a old ubi..
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01:26 < sinless> I update to the new one and works:)
01:26 < XQYZ> well good for you then :)
01:27 < sinless> Now I can enjoy RB,My classic has 1500mah battery..
01:28 < [Saint]> yeah, but...you'll get terrible runtime presently.
01:29 < timccccc> so XQYZ, i've got pyusb and ipoddfu, libipoddfu, bootstrap, and the installer-classic. all i do now is 'py pysub.py' ? 
01:29 < XQYZ> do mp3s work flawlessly with the current build even? I haven't really tried anything except flac files
01:29 < sinless> yes
01:29 < sinless> MP3 works fine
01:30 < XQYZ> what do you mean pyusb.py?
01:30 < timccccc> errr 'py ipoddfu.py' sorry
01:30 < XQYZ> you need to install that
01:30 < XQYZ> then run "python ipoddfu.py installer-classic.ubi"
01:30 < sinless> Anybody knows why my SSD has only 30/25 R/W speed on classic..
01:31 < timccccc> ok so give it an argument, thanks! 
01:34 < timccccc> whoops only have 0.4.2 
01:43 < timccccc>  Upload: ...... blink blink blink
01:44 < XQYZ> it should actually be done like instantly
01:44 < XQYZ> oh damn
01:44 < timccccc> hm
01:44 < XQYZ> sorry
01:44 < XQYZ> gave you the wrong commandline
01:44 < XQYZ> you need to use the bootstrap file
01:44 < XQYZ> do you have it?
01:44 < timccccc> sure. 
01:44 < XQYZ> use that as argument instead of "installer"
01:46 < timccccc> nice
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01:50 < timccccc> umsboot is up, but no mass storage device detected 
01:50 < XQYZ> can do post the last few lines of "dmesg"
01:52 < timccccc> ya, hold on. i rebooted and the default apple firmware returned
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02:05 < timccccc1> XQYZ: http://pastie.org/1441586
02:05 < timccccc1> ah! it's seen now
02:06 < timccccc1> unallocated 64mb that i can't mount
02:07 < XQYZ> is there a /dev/sda file/device node?
02:08 < timccccc1> ya
02:08 < XQYZ> but you can't mount it?
02:08 < timccccc1> ya
02:08 < XQYZ> that's strange
02:09 < XQYZ> what's the error it gives?
02:11 < timccccc1> it just hangs, can't even ctrl c kill it 
02:11 < XQYZ> maybe an usb problem then
02:12 < XQYZ> can you kill -9 it?
02:14 < timccccc1> i don't understand, but i unplugged it back to normal, heh
02:14 < XQYZ> try to reload your usb driver: "modprobe -r ehci_hcd"
02:14 < XQYZ> maybe that helps
02:14 < timccccc1> this ipod classic has always been finicky about mounting. hm.
02:15 < XQYZ> (maybe it's the cable?)
02:15 < timccccc1> i'll look to swap it, sec
02:26 < timccccc1> the one wire might be 6 years old, and the other is a chinese counterfeit. hmmm 
02:26 < XQYZ> well could me something else
02:27 < XQYZ> i'm just guessing here
02:28 < XQYZ> you could try if it works on another computer if you have access to one
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02:48 < timccc> so on a second computer i'm in the same boat.  an unallocated 64mb partition shows, and i can't mount it. 
02:49 < XQYZ> that's really strange
02:49 < XQYZ> what generation of ipod do you have?
02:50 < timccc> 3rd
02:51 < XQYZ> what distribution are you running?
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02:51 < timccc> ubuntu 1010
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02:54 < timccc> dd the installer ubi over? try and format it? 
02:54 < XQYZ> no not dd it over
02:55 < XQYZ> it's supposed to be mounted
02:55 < XQYZ> then it's copied over
02:55  * [Saint] evry highly suggests waiting for TheSeven, lest a brick be a possible result of random guesswork.
02:55 < [Saint]> *very
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02:56 < [Saint]> It's a young port, a younger installer...poking around in the dark with random guesses is likely to wind you up with an expensive paper-weight.
02:56 < timccc> ya, thanks saint. no rush. :) some other time 
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02:57 < XQYZ> didn't TheSeven say that the DFU was hardware based?
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02:58 < [Saint]> well, in theory there should always be a way to recover these iPods (Nano3G onward I believe), but that may or may not involve varying degrees of difficulty.
02:58 < [Saint]> I just don't want timccc to lose an iPod over lack of waiting for TheSeven.
02:59 < XQYZ> well since it's not mountable there's really not much that can be done anyway
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03:24 < mmarker> Hmm. Can you compile a rockbox compatable iLoader with what's in SVN? I see the installer-classic.ubi app, but it doesn't like writing to the HD.
03:24 < mmarker> Getting the error: "Error writing MBR: 80000000"
03:36 < mmarker> Wait, I think I see the bug
03:41 < mmarker> yup
03:42 < mmarker> that was it. Not turning on the ATA device, so reaind the # of sectors would fail. Which means the format would always fail
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07:48 < ParadisoShlee> sweet jesus.
07:50 < [Saint]> well...that's a fine welcome.
07:51 < ParadisoShlee> Sorry, I'm just a little stocked. Great work with the Classic port
07:53 < [Saint]> Heh, that's probably the most enthusiastic reaction I've seen to date ;)
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09:45 < TheSeven> urgh, backlog...
09:48 < TheSeven> [02:25] <sinless> theseven's new xp driver incoulded a old ubi.. << the XP additions shouldn't include an ubi at all
09:49 < TheSeven> [02:30] <XQYZ> then run "python ipoddfu.py installer-classic.ubi" << wrong file
09:50 < TheSeven> [02:30] <sinless> Anybody knows why my SSD has only 30/25 R/W speed on classic.. << because USB can't really handle more, and the drivers are nowhere near optimized yet
09:50 < ParadisoShlee> Does anyone have the DFU mode drivers for Windows 7?
09:50 < ParadisoShlee> I might need to install iTunes. :(
09:52 < TheSeven> [03:55] * [Saint] evry highly suggests waiting for TheSeven, lest a brick be a possible result of random guesswork. << that kind of software poking around shouldn't do much damage
09:53 < TheSeven> [04:42] <mmarker> that was it. Not turning on the ATA device, so reaind the # of sectors would fail. Which means the format would always fail << w00t?`
09:53 < TheSeven> ParadisoShlee: itunes will only get into the way
09:54 < TheSeven> for win7, everything you need is in the 7z file
09:54 < TheSeven> the DFU mode driver is in winusb.inf
09:58 < ParadisoShlee> http://i.imgur.com/17MDF.png - I'll keep looking for a solution to this.
10:01 < ParadisoShlee> USB\VID_05AC&PID_1223&REV_0001
10:05 < TheSeven> ParadisoShlee: does c:\windows\system32\drivers\winusb.sys exist?
10:06 < TheSeven> microsoft says that this file would be included in win7 already
10:07 < TheSeven> if it doesn't exist, try the XP driver, that should work on win7 as well but has less prerequisites (and is thus way bigger)
10:07 < ParadisoShlee> Nope. doesn't include that file.. I've got a xp machine here
10:07 < ParadisoShlee> I might have a G1 classic anyway
10:07 < TheSeven> that screenshot doesn't look like XP at all?
10:08 < ParadisoShlee> sorry, this laptop is 7.
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10:11 < ParadisoShlee> That's sad.. I was sold old stock. 160GB G1 classic
10:11 < ParadisoShlee> so my next question is; how do I get my iPod out of DFU mode :) right now it's just a black screen.
10:14 < [Saint]> some googling could have saved some time on the generation.
10:14 < TheSeven> ParadisoShlee: hold menu+select for 5 seconds
10:15 < [Saint]> The 1st Gen Classics are still quite awesome.
10:16 < ParadisoShlee> I'm not really complaining. it doesn't matter what generation my iPod is. the DFU drivers didn't work. I havn't done anything iLoader related
10:17 < ParadisoShlee> 'c:\windows\system32\drivers\winusb.sys' doesn't exist on my fresh win7 machine. fyi
10:18 < TheSeven> aha, you might need to use the driver from WinUSBXP.7z in that case
10:20 < ParadisoShlee> I'll give it another try once you've got G1 classics :)
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11:03 < user890104> TheSeven: do you know why does diagmode fail to read the sysinfo part of an iloader-flashed nano 2g?
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11:13 < TheSeven> because that sysinfo isn't where diagmode expects it to be
11:13 < TheSeven> it doesn't use the copy in ram like everything else, but instead that on the flash directly
11:15 < [Saint]> could it be placed where the OF expects it to be?
11:15 < [Saint]> this is re: the diagmode displaying a few lines a garbage on Nano2G yes?
11:15 < [Saint]> I had wondered about that.
11:23 < TheSeven> currently i distinguish the flash format (apple/embios) by looking there the sysinfo is, but in theory that could be changed
11:26 -!- teuf_ is now known as teuf
11:27 < fmibot> New commit by theseven (r420): Installer for iPod Classic: Commit (empty) fsfiles folder to get it out of my way.
11:27 < fmibot> r420 build result: All green!
11:30  * TheSeven needs a tester with an 160GB 1G (CE-ATA) ipod classic, and preferably a pyusb setup
11:47 < TheSeven> http://files.freemyipod.org/tmp/ceatatest.ubi
11:47 < TheSeven> who wants to give it a try?
11:47 < [Saint]> timccc has a 160GB 1st Gen Classic I think.
11:47 < TheSeven> ParadisoShlee as well
11:47 < [Saint]> He was here earlier
11:48  * TheSeven also pings timccccc1 in case that copy of him is awake :)
11:48 < ParadisoShlee> I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is :)
11:51 < TheSeven> ParadisoShlee: if you want to test it, use the winxp driver (it's the same as the win7 one, just includes more files), run UMSbootiPodClassic.exe, drop ceatatest.ubi on the volume that pops up, eject it, wait, and tell me what it says on the LCD
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11:59 < default__> unmounting the usb device bluescreened me. but that's not a big deal :)
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12:00 < default__> emBIOS v0.1.4 r419M
12:00 < default__> 00200000 00000000
12:00 < default__> 00230041 00FF8000
12:00 < default__> mC: timed out waiting for MMC_DATA_RESEND
12:00 < default__> mI: SEND OP COND failed
12:00 < default__> MMC init failed
12:00 < default__> Done.
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12:04 < TheSeven> ParadisoShlee: are you absolutely sure that it's a 1G?
12:04 < TheSeven> i'm getting the exact same result on a non-CE-ATA ipod
12:06 < TheSeven> can you check if the HDD is spinning after that code has run?
12:07 < ParadisoShlee> I don't think it is.. Do you have any debug code to confirm the version? my original USB is was ''USB\VID_05AC&PID_1223&REV_0001''
12:08 < TheSeven> i uploaded a new file to the same address that should make sure the drive is spun up properly
12:08 < TheSeven> and to check if it's CE-ATA, it's probably easiest to just try to install iloader/rockbox.
12:08 < TheSeven> if that works, it's apparently not using the weird CE-ATA drive :)
12:09  * TheSeven leaves his desk for half an hour
12:13 < [Saint]> ParadisoShlee: If you google the serial number on the iPod backing, it will give you the exact product information if you're unsure about the generation.
12:18 < ParadisoShlee> I'm going to assume the USB output is just unexpected and I've got a G3 model. the classic installer is working
12:31 < ParadisoShlee> well, it's working pretty damn well.
12:35 < Farthen> then you don't have the weird CE-ATA drive
12:35 < [Saint]> you needn't assume, you can verufy the generation of your device with releative ease.
12:35 < [Saint]> *verify
12:39 < Farthen> ParadisoShlee: enter your serial number on this page and you will find out which generation it is: http://www.appleserialnumberinfo.com
12:41 < [Saint]> just Googling it works
12:42 < ParadisoShlee> do you mean the long or short serial number?
12:42 < ParadisoShlee> A1238
12:42 < Farthen> the other one i would assume
12:43 < ParadisoShlee> ok, that could be anything.. it's scratched
12:43 < Farthen> [Saint]: googling for mine does only show old irc logs of me ;)
12:43 < ParadisoShlee> I'm from Australia, let's assume our models are stupid
12:43 < [Saint]> Wow...googling my serials even tells me what colour my devices are :D
12:43 < Farthen> nope, the small number ist the right one to find out the generation
12:43 < [Saint]> nah, that's the model number.
12:44 < Farthen> [Saint]: yep, same for me
12:44 < [Saint]> you want the longer serial number
12:44 < Farthen> but the small one is enough to find out the generation, isn't it?
12:44 < [Saint]> I wouldn't want to bet on it.
12:44 < [Saint]> but...probably
12:45 < Farthen> ah i see. it only tells that it is a classic
12:45 < [Saint]> iTunes should also report the generation IIRC
12:49 < Farthen> it does even report the serial number stored in the syscfg
12:50 < TheSeven> [13:18] <ParadisoShlee> I'm going to assume the USB output is just unexpected << which kind of output?
12:50 < [Saint]> yeah...it uses it to disply the right image of your device, in the right colour...among other things I assume.
12:50 < ParadisoShlee> ''USB\VID_05AC&PID_1223&REV_0001''
12:50 < ParadisoShlee> on a  3g
12:51 < TheSeven> this only tells you that it's a nano 3g or classic 1g/2g/3g
12:51 < TheSeven> the DFU mode actually doesn't know what it is :)
12:51 < [Saint]> ParadisoShlee: Have you definitively verified what geberation this device is?
12:51 < [Saint]> you seem really unsure.
12:52 < [Saint]> *generation
12:52 < TheSeven> (which means that the nano3g will accept classic DFU images, which might brick it because it has a different PMU)
12:52 < TheSeven> ParadisoShlee: if it's only about 1cm thick (and not like 1.5cm), it's a 3g
12:53 < Farthen> TheSeven: that's why i'm voting for more strict model checks ;)
12:53 < TheSeven> yeah, but how?
12:53 < Farthen> reading the syscfg?
12:53 < ParadisoShlee> lets just assume I made a miskate due to the dfu id
12:54 < TheSeven> Farthen: and doing what if it doesn't match? reset?
12:54 < Farthen> yep, resetting is the best we can do
12:54 < TheSeven> and we'd need to figure out how those syscfg model numbers actually work
12:54 < TheSeven> or maybe one day build a hybrid dfu image that just works on both :)
12:55 < Farthen> those serial numbers are pretty much reversed and understood
12:55 < TheSeven> Farthen: the serial numbers, maybe
12:55 < TheSeven> but not the syscfg model information
12:55 < Farthen> TheSeven: isn't the serial number stored in syscfg?
12:56 < Farthen> it should be because itunes can report it to the user
12:56 < TheSeven> yeah, but parsing that is rather difficult compared to the model info and it's not the way apple is doing it
12:56 < timccccc1> slight bre
12:57 < timccccc1> whoops\
12:57 < TheSeven> timccccc1: you have a 1g 160gb?
12:57 < timccccc1> 3g
12:57 < TheSeven> hm
12:57 < Farthen> our best bet would be to let embios report the number on each boot and create a table in the wiki. if we get enough different numbers we may find out how they work
12:58 < timccccc1> i'll be happy to mess around with it shortly. see you then perhaps. :)
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12:59  * TheSeven slaps [Saint]
13:02 < TheSeven> so all our 1g candidates turned out to have 3gs... now where do i get someone with a 1g from?
13:03 < Farthen> just assume that they don't exist and wait for the first users to tell us that we suck and broke their ipods?
13:03 < [Saint]> seems fair.
13:03 < [Saint]> :D
13:06 < TheSeven> as far as i can tell it will crash in one way or another, but before doing any harm
13:06 < TheSeven> after resetting everything should still be factory state
13:09 < [Saint]> the worst case would probably be losing the data on the disk by needing to restore I think.
13:09 < [Saint]> which sould be accepted as a possible risk anyway.
13:10 < TheSeven> no, it can't lose the data, because it can't even talk to the disk :)
13:15 < Farthen> can you detect pe-ata?
13:15 < Farthen> if you can you may just display a warning and tell them they should come on irc
13:16 < TheSeven> yeah, that may work, it's detected using a GPIO
13:25 < timccc> hey, after i 'python ipoddfu.py bootstrap-ipodclassic.dfu' the classic 3g sits with UMS boot on the lcd, but no storage device pops up.  dmesg shows http://pastie.org/1442489 
13:27 < TheSeven> can you mount /dev/sdc?
13:28 -!- XQYZ [~XQYZ@p5088FD02.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #freemyipod
13:28 < timccc> also, looks quite different than an earlier dmesg http://pastie.org/1441586
13:28 < timccc> no, mount hangs
13:28 < TheSeven> is that mac os?
13:28 < timccc> ubuntu
13:29 < TheSeven> hm
13:29 < TheSeven> that kind of misbehavior is known from darwin, but not linux
13:30 < TheSeven> sudo a "sudo mount /dev/sdc /mnt/whatever" hangs?
13:30 < timccc> exactly
13:30 < TheSeven> how on earth can mount hang?
13:30 < TheSeven> does trying to mount produce further dmesg lines?
13:31 < timccc> duno hold on i've got a ^CInterrupt brb
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13:51 < user890104> would a patch that defines umsboot's lcdconsole fg/bg color in target.h (like embios) is going to be accepted to the svn?
13:54 < TheSeven> possibly
13:54 < TheSeven> i don't think it can hurt
13:56  * timccc returns =
13:56 < timccc> barely escaped. 
13:57 < timccc> whoa
13:57 < timccc> so after i killed it with ctrl + c, it looks like it mounted. free space 63.9 :D should i try and copy over the installer-classic.ubi?
13:58 < TheSeven> probably
13:58 < TheSeven> no idea what makes mount hang though
13:59 < timccc> dmesg looks the same http://pastie.org/1442552
14:00 < TheSeven> hm, some more resets
14:00 < TheSeven> did copying work?
14:01 < timccc> seemed to
14:03 < timccc> i've got the warning screen. ;)
14:03 < TheSeven> that's good :)
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14:08 < timccc> i've read about it hanging at the white screen after FLASHING DO NOT RESET. i'm at that hang now?
14:08 < TheSeven> so that still happens? :/
14:08 < TheSeven> i still have to figure out why... just reset it.
14:09 < TheSeven> the flashing process has already completed at that point, and it's trying to shut down and reboot, which locks up for some reason
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14:14 < sinless> Hello every body..I found a new bug
14:16 < sinless> The Hold swith lock it self sometimes
14:17 < sinless> When play some click-wheel games this can be seem easily
14:24 -!- timccc1 [~timccc@112.166.15.141] has joined #freemyipod
14:24 < sinless> hey?
14:25 -!- timccc [~timccc@112.166.15.141] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
14:26 < TheSeven> hm, it's probably more the clickwheel locking up than a hold switch issue
14:28 < sinless> And..Audio play still have trouble,sometimes mp3 plays stop by stop...
14:28 < sinless> These are the two biggst trouble I think..
14:28 < timccc1> how are you supposed to move files to the classic? when i connect a usb cable, the rb display changes but nothing mounts. normal?
14:29 < XQYZ> timccc1: that depends on how auto-mount is configured
14:29 < XQYZ> timccc1: can you still mount it normally or do you still have issues?
14:30 < timccc1> what is 'mount it normally' ? 
14:30 < XQYZ> as in using the console
14:30 < XQYZ> manually
14:32 < TheSeven> timccc1: it probably has the same problem as UMSboot
14:32 < timccc1> no, i can't mount it at all. nothing shows up in dmesg
14:32 < TheSeven> i haven't seen that fail on linux before though
14:32 < TheSeven> if you unplug it, does it go back to the normal menu?
14:33 < TheSeven> if not, you managed to lock up the rockbox kernel :)
14:33 < XQYZ> TheSeven: mine doesn't go back to normal sometimes either and 
14:33 < XQYZ> i have to press Enter + Menu for it to go back
14:33 -!- sinless [~sinless@115.197.122.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
14:33 < XQYZ> not reset, but quit it
14:33 < timccc1> mine does not go back to normal 
14:35 < TheSeven> timccc1: reboot it and try agin
14:36 < TheSeven> XQYZ: it's normal that leaving USB mode can take *several* seconds
14:36 < TheSeven> pressing buttons shouldn't affect it
14:36 < XQYZ> yeah i just tried it and apparently it does take a while, but does it automatically
14:37 < timccc1> TheSeven: ;amd
14:37 < timccc1> same
14:44 < user890104> TheSeven: http://212.233.239.19:8989/~venci/freemyipod/umsboot.diff
15:04 -!- drostie [~marathon@cpe-24-58-56-164.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #freemyipod
15:04 < drostie> I wanted to say, thankyouythankyouthankyou to you guys. :D 
15:04 < fmibot> New commit by theseven (r421): UMSboot: Make LCD console colors configurable
15:05 < fmibot> r421 build result: All green!
15:05 < drostie> After my iPod got stolen, I was upset because I couldn't get a modern device that worked with Rockbox any more. This project gives me tremendous amounts of hope and joy. :D
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15:07 < timccc1> TheSeven: if you have any ideas about how to access the ipod, let me know. i know you're busy, and i saw the warning :)
15:11 < timccc1> maybe it's as simple as finding a new cable or a  windows machine. i'll try both tomorrow. 
15:15 < asmmonkey> has something seen anything like this http://pastebin.com/DWUeMCcM before?
15:15 < asmmonkey> RTXCbug mode?
15:16 < asmmonkey> Task Manager Mode?
15:20 < [Saint]> asmmonkey: Where did you pull that from?
15:20 < asmmonkey> nano 3g NOR
15:21 < asmmonkey> It is like an advanced debug mode
15:21 < [Saint]> getting to whatever mode that menu is in on the device seems like it would be fucking interesting.
15:22 < Farthen> just to note, rtxc is the realtime os on which disk mode and diag mode run
15:22 < Farthen> and getting to that diag mode is probably very hard and most certainly only possible with special equipment (at least jtag)
15:24 < Farthen> i also thought that it may be interesting to see this debug mode, but only because it's fun. we would probably not gain any useful information from it ;)
15:24 < TheSeven> asmmonkey: looks well-known to me :)
15:24 < asmmonkey> It seems that you can enter commands, there are strings like: "RXTCbug>" and "Bad command"
15:24 < TheSeven> [16:22] <Farthen> just to note, rtxc is the realtime os on which disk mode and diag mode run << you mean diskmode and the OF?
15:25 < TheSeven> diagmode is *not* based on rtxc
15:25 < Farthen> it's not? of sorry, i thought it would be
15:25 < Farthen> s/of/oh
15:26 < TheSeven> asmmonkey: yes, I have also found the code behind that, and it looks like it's accessed using JTAG
15:26 < TheSeven> (breaking on SWI instructions)
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15:26  * [Saint] wonders WTF mailboxes is for.
15:27  * Farthen doubts we will ever find it out
15:27 < TheSeven> inter-process communication
15:27 < TheSeven> something like rockbox's message queues
15:27 < [Saint]> ah, odd naming schema
15:27 < [Saint]> but..that's entirely an Apple-y thing to do.
15:28 < Farthen> ah, fine. then i was wrong - again ;)
15:29 < gevaerts> [Saint]: that's a fairly common name for them
15:29 < [Saint]> I'm always amused when advanced debug type stuff has "Help" menus.
15:29 < Farthen> i think these names come from rtxc and apple does not have that much to do with them.
15:29 < [Saint]> do these devs forget how to use their own code?
15:30 < Farthen> it's probably for steve xD
15:30 < [Saint]> I mean, it's obviously not readily accesible...so why have a help dialogue as opposed to a few notes in the source?
15:30 < [Saint]> insanity
15:31 < TheSeven> that help dialog is basically what you have just spotted
15:32 < TheSeven> just a quick overview on which key does what
15:32 < Farthen> let's add it to the long list of things we don't understand in the stuff apple does. not that we would ever find it out though
15:33 < [Saint]> it is absolutle fooligh how ridiculously over-engineered everything Apple is.
15:33 < [Saint]> They are a parody of themselves.
15:33 < [Saint]> *foolish
15:33 < Farthen> but it works and nobody notices ;)
15:37 < asmmonkey> actually, rtxc is not of apple
15:37 < Farthen> we should smuggle someone from our team in here: http://jobs.apple.com/index.ajs?BID=1&method=mExternal.showJob&RID=68380&CurrentPage=1
15:38 < asmmonkey> there is a great amount of information of rtxc here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/19171659/RTOSRTXC
15:38 < [Saint]> I almost guarantee they check to see if you've been involved in any form of OSS community, and reject based on it.
15:39 < Farthen> any form of oss? it's not that apple hates oss
15:39 < gevaerts> What do they have against sound drivers?
15:39 < XQYZ> Isn't apple fairly ok with OSS? I mean they use quite a bit of it themselves
15:39 < XQYZ> plus release stuff under their own OSS licence
15:39  * [Saint] completely forgot to type DAP
15:40 < Farthen> or they choose people that already did this kind of stuff because they have the experience xD
15:40 < [Saint]> Question one on the job application for: "Are you TheSeven?"
15:40 < [Saint]> if yes, interview over.
15:40 < [Saint]> *form
15:41 < XQYZ> rockbox wiki does have this quote thought: "Apple should pay a nice sum for these nice guys who turn their fashion crap into a music player"
15:41 < XQYZ> http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/GoldenQuotes
15:41  * Farthen thinks we should move over to #freemyipod-chatter ;)
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20:36 < benedikt93> hmm, what would it mean if instead of a PE header, something starting with "VZ" (at the place of the usual "PE")  would exist?
20:38 -!- powell14ski_ [~powell14s@c-67-177-228-132.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #freemyipod
20:39 < kisak> if I rsync clone an ipod, will I be able to later use that clone to restore the ipod to that state (after a format and dumping the OF back onto it)
20:39 < kisak> or will it think I knifed it?
20:40 < TheSeven> benedikt93: so MZ ... VZ ...?
20:40 < benedikt93> TheSeven, yep
20:40 < kisak> before I try out TheSeven's CE-ATA test code
20:40 < TheSeven> kisak: which ipod generation?
20:40 < teuf> kisak: it should be fine
20:40 < TheSeven> ah
20:41 < kisak> the backup is about 60% complete right now
20:41 < kisak> it's been going for at least an hour
20:41 < TheSeven> i don't think the ce-ata test code will manage to corrupt the drive, but you never know
20:42 < kisak> well, I'll need ipoddfu.py ... what else?
20:44 < TheSeven> ipoddfu.py, libipoddfu.py and ceatatest.ubi
20:44 < TheSeven> and if you want to get a dump of the screen contents also embios.py, libembios.py and libembiosdata.py
20:45 < kisak> ok, looks like I will not need to setup a crosscompile environment
20:46 < TheSeven> you only need that if you want to play with the code yourself :)
20:52 < kisak> ok, I got those files thrown together in the same folder, now to wait for the backup to finish
20:54 < kisak> TheSeven: does the test process actually write anything to the ipod, or is it all in the ram?
20:55 < TheSeven> it should be all in ram, and the code should not issue any actual disk commands, just check the communication layer
20:55 < TheSeven> but you never know...
20:57 < kisak> ok, all the better, since worse case scenario is what? device goes non-responsive for 100 hours?
21:00 < TheSeven> i wouldn't expect anything really bad to happen, but no warranty for anything. in theory it might end up being bricked if some malfunctioning code decides to tell the power manager to toast the cpu :)
21:01 < kisak> thus is the cost of progress
21:13 -!- XQYZ [~XQYZ@p5088FD02.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:17 < kisak> backup is complete
21:21 < TheSeven> ok
21:21 < TheSeven> enter DFU mode (menu+select for 10..15 seconds, the display should stay off after that)
21:21 < TheSeven> then run sudo ipoddfu.py ceatatest.ubi
21:22 < TheSeven> wait for the test to complete (it will either bail out because of an error, lock up completely, or say "Done."
21:22 < TheSeven> if you want to access the display contents from your PC, run sudo embios.py console
21:22 < TheSeven> throw the output of that into some pastebin if possible
21:23 < kisak> upload failed at 2/7
21:23 < kisak> pastebin coming
21:23 < TheSeven> oops
21:23 < TheSeven> wrong instructions
21:24 < kisak> http://pastie.org/1443603
21:24 < TheSeven> suo python ipoddfu.py bootstrap-ipodclassic.dfu of course
21:24 < TheSeven> sudo*
21:24 < TheSeven> then mount the umsboot volume
21:25 < TheSeven> copy ceatatest.ubi to it, unmount it and unplug the ipod
21:26 < kisak> umm ... *goes hunting for bootstrap-ipodclassic.dfu*
21:28 < TheSeven> http://files.freemyipod.org/misc/bootstrap-ipodclassic.dfu
21:28 < kisak> upload succeeded
21:28 -!- benedikt93 [~benedikt9@unaffiliated/benedikt93] has quit [Quit: Bye ;)]
21:31 < TheSeven> are you able to mount the umsboot volume?
21:31 < TheSeven> other people have had trouble doing that on linux, i still need to figure out why
21:32 < TheSeven> if it doesn't work, i've just prepared another solution
21:32 < TheSeven> http://files.freemyipod.org/tmp/ceatatest.dfu can be directly executed through DFU
21:32 < TheSeven> (using ipoddfu.py)
21:32 < kisak> I'm trying to figure out why I don't see sdb in /dev but it's reported in dmesg
21:34 < kisak> well, in that case I should reset the ipod, put it into DFU mode again, and have another go at this
21:36 < kisak> upload succeeded
21:36 < kisak> we got a panic on the screen
21:37 < kisak> http://pastie.org/1443631
21:38 < kisak> I'm going to reset the ipod again and have it ready for another round
21:41 < TheSeven> bugger... exactly the same behavior as on mine (1g 80gb)
21:41 < TheSeven> that doesn't help me much...
21:42 < kisak> well, a sliver is better than nothing
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21:48 < kisak> afk for grub fetching
22:08 < kisak> (back)
22:15 < TheSeven> user890104: I've cleaned up some minor issues in your wiki article
22:16 < user890104> TheSeven: thanks
22:17 < TheSeven> thanks for writing it :)
22:18 < user890104> :)
22:20 < [Saint]> what rev is emBIOS loader at these days?
22:20 < TheSeven> 0.1.1 r392
22:20 < [Saint]> just noticed I'm still on 0.1.1 r257
22:21 < [Saint]> To tell the truth, I've been fearful of updating.
22:21 < TheSeven> the loader barely ever changes
22:21 < [Saint]> well...not literally scared, it works and I don't want any hassle.
22:22 < TheSeven> the only changes since r257 that affected the /embios/trunk/loader/ipodnano2g directory were Makefile changes
22:22 < TheSeven> so the code is still the same
22:22 < TheSeven> no need to update the loader at all
22:23 < TheSeven> the binary will hopefully be identical besides for the version strung
22:23 < TheSeven> string*
22:23 < [Saint]> though, I guess I should indeed update...a commit of yours scared me a while ago, and I proved to be correct on my judgement there.
22:23 < TheSeven> r196 was the last revision that actually changed the loader code
22:23 < [Saint]> something along the lines of "this seems like a bad idea, as it's worked this way 'til now"
22:24 < TheSeven> yeah, that one actually failed and was reverted in the mean time
22:24 < TheSeven> it was the reason for the updater lockups we had recently
22:24 < [Saint]> I don't need it for anything fancy though...as long as it boots RB/OF/Disk Mode and fixes trashed FTLs...I'm cool.
22:25  * TheSeven should never fix apparent bugs that look like it may have never worked, when it has worked for months :)
22:25 < TheSeven> there were some minor bug fixes and some LCD speed improvements recently, but apart from that there haven't really been changes to the nano2g for several months
22:25 < [Saint]> so...I remember (I believe it was that dodgy commit) that there *may* have been an issue where the updater might fail.
22:26 < [Saint]> this is not the case anymore?
22:26 < TheSeven> oh, and that bitmap menu entry feature was added to iloader recently
22:26 < [Saint]> "bitmap menu entry feature"?
22:26 < TheSeven> [Saint]: that dodgy commit has been reverted after it was pinpointed what was going on
22:26 -!- asmmonkey [~asmmonkey@185.Red-88-21-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
22:27 < [Saint]> so, essentailly..the updater should "just work"
22:27 < TheSeven> [Saint]: menus in themes can now use bitmaps instead of text. this feature was added for the ipod classic default theme, but works on the nano2g as well (but isn't used by any theme so far)
22:27  * [Saint] smells something pretty cooking
22:27 < TheSeven> i did some nano2g testing some days ago and cleaned up all the problems i found
22:28 < TheSeven> so it should work properly
22:28 < TheSeven> there might still be some leftover wrong colors from the endianness change though
22:28 < TheSeven> i think i've caught them but i'm not sure
22:28 < [Saint]> I believe it's time for me to make a fancy-ass iLoader theme...I can use blit() to animate in theory, no?
22:29 < TheSeven> with the current architecture you can only do animations while you aren't waiting for user input
22:29 < [Saint]> Ah...fuck.
22:29 < TheSeven> so you can do fancy transitions, but what won't work is e.g. a default entry timeout bar
22:29 < [Saint]> Could I do a boot anim?
22:30 < TheSeven> what exactly do you mean?
22:30 < [Saint]> I have the image of the Apple logo turning into "freaky pac-man-iLoader-spikey-thing"
22:30 < [Saint]> +in my head.
22:31 < TheSeven> you want to do that if one hits the OF button or what?
22:31 < [Saint]> as in, after boot...but before menu.
22:31 < TheSeven> ah, before the menu
22:31 < [Saint]> (not fastboot)
22:31 < TheSeven> yes, that can be done, but it will delay boot of course :)
22:31 < [Saint]> however...transitions for the loaded image would be cool also.
22:32 < [Saint]> also, how fast can I blit()?
22:32 < TheSeven> fast enough
22:32 < [Saint]> excellent.
22:32 < TheSeven> like 30fps on the old builds, ~100fps on SVN head
22:32 < kisak> you should have the apple bootslash crack and fall to pieces, revealing rockbox's boot splash
22:32 < kisak> *boot splash
22:32  * [Saint] HATES the RB bootsplash.
22:32 < [Saint]> it looks like a traffic sign.
22:33 < [Saint]> fucking yellow and black...pffft!
22:33 < kisak> ok, then reveal something else
22:33 < TheSeven> keep in mind that while you're running an animation you can't do anything else, so it will enlarge boot times. also this kind of animation will be rather big and thus take a while to load
22:33 < kisak> I don't really care, just trying to help the creative juices
22:34 < [Saint]> the idea I have is the Apple logo transitioning into "freaky-spiky-pacman-iLoader-dude-thing"
22:34 < TheSeven> basically a second of animation takes a almost second to preload
22:34 < [Saint]> ouch.
22:35 < [Saint]> Hmmm..at boot, that's not bad. I was rather hoping to do menu transitions though.
22:35 < TheSeven> and assuming that it's running at 25fps, it will take ~1.2MB of space per second
22:35 < [Saint]> what's the storage limit? the entire disk?
22:35 < TheSeven> you can of course preload the transitions while the user choses something from the menu
22:35 < TheSeven> yep
22:35 < [Saint]> heh....awesome.
22:36 < TheSeven> but you can only preload a maximum of ~30MB at once
22:36 < TheSeven> (which should still be sufficient)
22:36 < [Saint]> "only"
22:37 < TheSeven> if you want to compress it (makes sense) the maximum animation size would be like 16MB
22:37 < [Saint]> well well well...I'll almost certainly never use it, but the possibilities for playing with animation (a love of mine in themes) are vastly superior to RBs terrible implementation.
22:37 < TheSeven> i should maybe add an interface to decompress an image directly to the frame buffer
22:37 < [Saint]> that's really just a hack from conditional sublines...it's terrible.
22:37 < TheSeven> or really go for postscript-based themes :)
22:38 < TheSeven> that would be a pain to program but ultra-flexible :)
22:38 < [Saint]> playing with such smooth animation will certainly be nice.
22:38 < [Saint]> ~12fps will be visibly imperceptible from any higher speed.
22:38 < TheSeven> the main issue is still the size (and thus preloading time) of full-screen animations
22:39 < TheSeven> that's not true
22:39 < TheSeven> 12 vs. 30fps is a clearly visible difference (to me at least)
22:39 < [Saint]> well...you shouldn't be able to see visible chopping at 12fps
22:39 < TheSeven> depends on the content of course
22:40 < user890104> TheSeven: can someone run an installer image from within recovery mode?
22:40 < TheSeven> if it's supposed to be a smooth movement, you need at least 20-30fps to make it look good
22:40 < TheSeven> yep
22:40 < [Saint]> compared to RB's theoretical 10fps limit that's really only ~6 or so once screen updates and scrolling text fuck shit up.
22:41 < [Saint]> +it will look amazing if it actually handles 12fps
22:41 < TheSeven> if you want to do really fancy things, you could go ahead and just replace iloader altogether
22:42 < TheSeven> (yes, an iloader theme can provide its own hacked copy of iloader)
22:42 < [Saint]> You have too much confidence in my coding ability good sir)
22:42 < [Saint]> and, what?
22:42 < [Saint]> (yes, an iloader theme can provide its own hacked copy of iloader) <-- 0_o
22:42 < TheSeven> embios will look for an iloader installation on the data partition before it uses the one from the boot flash
22:43 < user890104> TheSeven: http://pastie.org/1443780 - that's why i didn't suggested running installer from recovery, because it doesn't work for me
22:43 < TheSeven> pad that file to a multiple of 16 bytes and it will work
22:43 < TheSeven> or maybe it was even 4 bytes
22:44 < TheSeven> yeah, pretty sure indeed
22:44 < TheSeven> the installer has a compressed payload at its end that will make the filesize be uneven
22:44 < [Saint]> TheSeven: Can I display anything onscreen such as battery/HDD access?
22:44  * [Saint] is thinking of a taskbar type thing
22:44 < TheSeven> not with the current interface, but that could be extended
22:45 < [Saint]> personally...I think the way you're doing themes is perfectly sane.
22:45 < [Saint]> A few small "widget" type things, pure awesome.
22:45 < TheSeven> there is no battery level reading code in embios yet, so one would either need to do it through I2C directly (which I'd like to avoid) or add some API to embios (that's like 10 lines of code)
22:46 < [Saint]> Sorry...I know you like functional...but I like ti pretty things up.
22:46 < [Saint]> *to
22:46 < TheSeven> the current way how iloader themes work allows for very customizable user interaction, but only as long as things are static
22:46 < TheSeven> there's no such thing like variables in themes
22:47 < TheSeven> that's why i'm figuring postscript might be the better (but more complex) alternative
22:47 < [Saint]> yeah...complete lack of conditional elements is...interesting. but just requires me to think differently.
22:48 < TheSeven> conditional elements exist in terms of conditional jumps based on pressed buttons, selected menu entries and errors occuring
22:48 < TheSeven> but the theme can't keep any state or have any loops
22:48 < [Saint]> Ah.
22:48 < TheSeven> so animations mean duplicating code for every frame, which works but is crap.
22:48 < [Saint]> shit...so I can't use anim loops?
22:48 < [Saint]> that complicates things slightly.
22:49 < TheSeven> they would need to be infinite :)
22:49 < TheSeven> possibly with a breakout condition if a button is pressed
22:49 < [Saint]> arg..ok.
22:49 < [Saint]> damn.
22:49 < TheSeven> but that means duplicating three lines of code for every frame
22:49  * user890104 would suggest a thread that keeps track of button presses, and another one that updates the display
22:49 < TheSeven> and to make matters worse it's like 40 bytes of compiled theme code for every frame
22:50 < TheSeven> those themes already work quite differently to rockbox themes
22:50 < TheSeven> while rockbox themes try to describe the things on the screen based on their position, iloader themes just provide directions what iloader should do in which order
22:51 < TheSeven> and they sorely lack support for variables and conditionals/finite loops
22:52 < TheSeven> but OTOH if you really want that level of flexibility, you can just throw iloader away and write the theme directly in C
22:53 < TheSeven> maybe make iloader be a library providing some functions for interaction, list-based menus, animations, and checksumming of firmware files
22:53 < [Saint]> I will almost certainly have to create the images, and get you to assist me with the implementation of a few things untill I properly understand the method.
22:54 < [Saint]> a few things are still quite foreign to me.
22:54 < TheSeven> the iloader theming system was developed from a software developer's point of view, you can clearly see that :)
22:54 < [Saint]> certainly :D
22:55 < [Saint]> It wasn't designed to be pretty initially ;)
22:55 < TheSeven> the way it works is completely different from rockbox themes, and has totally different advantages/disadvantages
22:55 < TheSeven> with rockbox themes there's no way of describing menus that cause user-defined actions, which iloader can do
22:56 < TheSeven> on the other hand, rockbox themes are designed to format content that's provided externally
22:56 < TheSeven> (which can't be done with iloader themes so far)
22:57 < TheSeven> writing iloader themes works a bit like assembly programming actually :)
22:57 < user890104> TheSeven: is there an easy (i mean automated) way to fix the file (or the script that uploads) so it will upload and run successfully?
22:57 < TheSeven> certainly
22:58 < TheSeven> one can just append garbage in libembiosldr.py to make the be aligned to a 4-byte boundary
22:58 < TheSeven> the size*
22:58 < [Saint]> TheSeven: btw...does update.cfg ever change? or once it's in the iLoader dir is it not neccessary to add it each update?
22:59 < TheSeven> it didn't change so far, and i'm not sure if it will ever change in future
22:59 < TheSeven> i'm wondering if we should switch the nano2g to umsboot-based updating as well (like the classic)
22:59 < [Saint]> Cool, I have been grabbing it each time but I wasn't sure if it was neccessary to do so.
22:59 < [Saint]> (I thought it may have some version matching magic)
23:00 < TheSeven> if someone has a genious idea how variables and conditionals could easily be added to iloader themes, speak up :)
23:01 < [Saint]> I think I may...but I'm fairly confident I need to properly understand the underlying structure better.
23:01 < TheSeven> i'm wondering if i should just throw away that structure and design a new one from scratch, as I don't see an easy way to do it with the current architecture
23:04 < TheSeven> [Saint]: I would appreciate your input as a non-programmer theme designer :)
23:04 < TheSeven> how would the ideal iloader theming system work like from your point of view?
23:05 < [Saint]> why is the Nano2G installer on theseven.freemyipod.org so old?
23:05 < [Saint]> r257
23:05 < [Saint]> sorry...r250
23:05 < TheSeven> there were only a bunch of small bug fixes and LCD improvements since that revision
23:05 < TheSeven> most of the commits were ipod classic-related
23:06 < TheSeven> which features does iloader need to support? how would you describe the menus, animations, and other kinds of user interaction?
23:07 < [Saint]> I would probably opt for a fixed menu structure...as it's just easier.
23:07 < TheSeven> not really
23:07 < [Saint]> then, something similar to RB's UI viewport thing.
23:08 < TheSeven> i actually realized that describing the menu structure in a theme is easier than in the code :)
23:08 < [Saint]> and the equivalent of their "current screen" (in this case submenu) tag.
23:08 < [Saint]> this way each submenu could have a different layout.
23:09  * TheSeven would rather like to describe the temporal and control flow in the theme
23:10 < [Saint]> the reason I suggest a fixed menu structure is because I actually quite like the way RB does the UI viewport thing.
23:10 < TheSeven> also, for example that "no theme found, do you want to uninstall" menu is just another theme
23:10 < TheSeven> and that fallback thing listing all files on the flash is a runtime-autogenerated theme
23:12 < [Saint]> Two conditonal elements I feel would be handy are USB send/recieve == true/false, and disk r/w == true false.
23:12 < [Saint]> then it would be easy to determine if the player had locked, or was simply working on doing something CPU intensive
23:14 < TheSeven> nope
23:14 < TheSeven> those indicators would probably be almost always on if the player locks up :)
23:14 < TheSeven> so if anything they would need to be animated
23:14 < [Saint]> sorry, yes.
23:14 < [Saint]> I kinda assumed you'd realise that was what I meant.
23:14 < TheSeven> and that kind of thing would only work as long as embios is running
23:15  * [Saint] must not assume such things
23:15 < TheSeven> which is basically just while the menu is being displayed
23:15 < TheSeven> (or while a developer is playing around with embios)
23:15 < [Saint]> yes...but it could still be usefull IMO
23:15 < [Saint]> (for the latter bracketed reason you stated)
23:17 < [Saint]> USB traffic might not be so important...but disk access == true/false would be quite handy IMO
23:17 < [Saint]> How to lay out these themes...no idea.
23:17 < TheSeven> i think a "wps-style" theme isn't really the right concept for iloader
23:25 < TheSeven> for that kind of thing i consider the ability to describe a custom menu orginazation and behavior more important than "status information"
23:25 < TheSeven> as that's basically what the bootloader theme is good for
23:29 < TheSeven> hm, i think the most important disadvantages could be resolved by adding some more commands/options to iloader, but i'm not really happy with that
23:29  * TheSeven needs to go to sleep
23:38  * [Saint] wonders if anyone has an SVN head iPod Nano2G iLoader installer (preferably colour inverted) on hand.
23:40 < user890104> i have an inverted build
23:42 -!- Keripo [~Keripo@CPE0022b0d4bdb7-CM001a6680d4fe.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
23:44 < user890104> the build log looks clean, i'll test (uninstalling the current one) it and post a link to the installer if it goes fine
23:48  * user890104 forgot to swap uninstaller's fg/bg colors
23:53 < user890104> my bootnote build does not work, i guess i'll go for ipodpatcher
--- Log closed Mon Jan 10 00:00:33 2011