--- Log opened Sat Jan 15 00:00:40 2011
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05:12 < Jackal_> hey guys.  i had a question.  i installed iLoader/rockbox on my 2g 120gb classic, and i was wanting to put the offical apple firmware back on.  how would i go about doing this?
05:26 < Jackal_> nevermind i found a guide.. but my ipod seems to be stuck in the dfw mode with it's screen off and the hard drive not very active. slight warm spot on the back though.  does anybody know how long it will take for the battery to drain so i can power it up again?
05:28 < Jackal_> i can tell its still in dfw because when i plug it into usb mediamonkey and itunes both pop up and the windows usb input sound chimes in
05:31 < kisak> Jackal_: you can't reset it?
05:34 < Jackal_> nope
05:35 < Jackal_> i hold menu/select for like a minute and nothing happens, hold switch doesnt help either
05:35 < Jackal_> this happened last night upon rockbox install when it flashed the firmware, except it was stuck on a white screen with the hard drive going full speed
05:36 < Jackal_> and i had to wait on it to drain overnight to power it up normally and didnt have an issue with iloader/rockbox after that
05:36 < kisak> < TheSeven> your only option in that case is to upload a second-stage apple recovery image (which will boot disk mode) and then reset it
05:36 < Jackal_> where could i find it?
05:36 < kisak> (from a couple days ago, same problem)
05:37 < kisak> I don't know to be honest
05:37 < kisak> I didn't press for info because I wasn't the one with the problem
05:38 < [Saint]> Just wait for TheSeven...guesswork almost always leads to more problems.
05:38 < Jackal_> alright
05:38 < Jackal_> he was the one that helped me out last night as well
05:38 < [Saint]> He's the lead developer.
05:38 < Jackal_> ah no wonder he was so awesome at it lol
05:40 < [Saint]> you say iTunes pops up...what is it iTunes is doing when it pops up?
05:40 < Jackal_> it just loads the library, i checked to see if it recognized any devices but it didnt seem to
05:40 < [Saint]> The last stage of uninstallation is simply letting iTunes restore the device.
05:41 < [Saint]> it is probably still using the WinUSB driver, as opposed to the iTunes driver
05:41 < Jackal_> probably
05:41 < Jackal_> what entry would it show in device manager?
05:42 < Jackal_> i could alway try to do a driver switch and see if it would show up in itunes
05:43 < [Saint]> for which? IIRC it should show Apple iPod <BLAH> or something similar if it's using it's original driver, and something like Classic/Nano3G DFU if it's using the WinUSB driver.
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07:32 < Jackal_> so i switched to the apple driver from winusb and it suddenly reset and im in rockbox now.
07:33 < Jackal_> how would i proceed from here if i wanted to reinstall the apple firmware?
07:43 < [Saint]> pick up where you left off in the uninstallation guide.
07:45 < [Saint]> shutdown rockbox, power it on again, you'll get iLoader bitching about having no theme, choose uninstall iLoader, you'll get some instructions onscreen, follow them, connect to your PC, let iTunes format it.
07:46 < [Saint]> If iTunes doesn't automagically detect an iPod needing restore, open itunes and force it to restore the device.
07:46 < [Saint]> done.
08:07 < Jackal_> got it thanks for all of your help
08:07 < [Saint]> No worries.
08:08 < Jackal_> i really liked rockbox i used to use it on my old 3rd gen but on the classics it drains my battery like crazy
08:08 < [Saint]> about 4~6 hours?
08:09 < Jackal_> something like that
08:09 < [Saint]> Yeah, this is known.
08:09 < Jackal_> im sure if they ever break the encryption they'll be able to use the power management
08:09 < Jackal_> lol
08:09 < Jackal_> alright i gotta go
08:09 < Jackal_> thanks for everything
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10:09 < TheSeven> this "reset not working" thing is getting on my nerves...
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10:36 < fmibot> New commit by theseven (r422): Fix shutdown logic: Should avoid both Ilitek LCD freezes and HDD emergency retracts
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10:37 < fmibot> r422 build result: All green!
10:39 < TheSeven> these hangs-on-white-screen issues actually seem to be successful reboots with a non-working LCD
10:39 < TheSeven> and i have absolutely no clue where the reset problems could come from
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10:53 < fmibot> New commit by theseven (r423): emBIOS: Kill all user threads before shutting down hardware
10:53 < fmibot> r423 build result: All green!
10:54 < TheSeven> anything else that should be fixed before i release the next build?
10:57 < user890104> TheSeven: how do i check why a bootnote fails to boot?
10:57 < TheSeven> how does it fail?
10:58 < user890104> let me check that
11:00 < user890104> the device reboots
11:00 < user890104> so, i see apple's main menu, and half a second later, it resets
11:01 < TheSeven> hm, either something wrong with your compiler that makes it do nonsense, or a wrong OF version
11:02 < TheSeven> or maybe the note overflowed
11:02 < TheSeven> how big is your ftlstub.ucl?
11:03 < user890104> 3994 bytes
11:04 < TheSeven> 3558 is the limit
11:04 < TheSeven> everything beyond that won't fit into the note
11:04 < TheSeven> mine is 3555 bytes
11:04 < TheSeven> so your compiler doesn't seem to optimize well
11:05 < TheSeven> or maybe it optimizes in a way that reduces compressability of the result
11:05 < TheSeven> my ftlstub.bin is 4376 bytes
11:06 < TheSeven> this is a very tight fit... a whopping three bytes free in my boot notes
11:06 < user890104> 4936 here
11:07 < user890104> is this from SVN HEAD or from a eairlier revision
11:07 < user890104> or it hasn't been changed recently
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11:07 < TheSeven> i think this hasn't changed since it was committed initially
11:07 < mylisto> hey folks
11:07 < mylisto> anyone good with diagnosing ipods?
11:07 < TheSeven> actually there was one change, two revisions after the initial commit
11:08 < TheSeven> so mine is r255
11:08 < TheSeven> mylisto: depends on the kind of ipod and the problem it has
11:08 < mylisto> its an ipod nano 2gig...
11:08 < TheSeven> second generation?
11:08 < mylisto> I can charge it...but can't access the "drive"
11:09 < mylisto> how do I tell if its second gen?  Are there any indicators on the back?
11:09 < TheSeven> any code from us or rockbox running on it, or just apple's stock firmware?
11:10 < TheSeven> http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1353
11:10 < mylisto> apple stock
11:10 < mylisto> I believe it is a 2nd gen
11:11 < TheSeven> so the apple firmware boots up correctly, but when you connect it via usb you can't see any files?
11:11 < mylisto> actually it may be the first gen...
11:11 < mylisto> yeah I can't see any files..
11:12 < TheSeven> single-piece anodized aluminum case, or plastic black/white front with silver aluminum back?
11:12 < TheSeven> can you still see any music on the ipod itself?
11:12 < mylisto> black plastic on front...metal silver back
11:12 < TheSeven> so windows recognizes a drive without any files on it? or doesn't it recognize anything at all?
11:12 < mylisto> I can see music on the ipod...just can't access via usb
11:12 < mylisto> using linux...linux can't access it
11:17 < mylisto> argh
11:20 < TheSeven> do you see the drive connecting in dmesg?
11:20 < mylisto> brb
11:24 < mylisto> theseven: going to pastebin the output
11:26 < mylisto> theseven: here...http://wordpress.pastebin.com/rrqiqLbU
11:26 < mylisto> there is some issue about not being to enumerate or something like that
11:26 < TheSeven> sounds like a bad cable actually
11:27 < mylisto> thats what I was reading
11:28 < TheSeven> it only enumerates (electrically) as USB1.1, and then fails to respond to any single request
11:28 < TheSeven> so it can't even be the EHCI bug :)
11:30 < mylisto> ehci bug?
11:30 < mylisto> its weird because it says it is charging
11:45 < mylisto> theseven: I'm not sure if its a bad cable, as I can access a different ipods drive with it
11:53 < TheSeven> then it might just be a bad ipod
11:53 < TheSeven> charging doesn't have much to do with USB communication
11:56 < mylisto> I'm running the diagnostic mode..
11:56 < mylisto> trying to see if something comes up
11:56 < mylisto> god, Ipods have to be the biggest hunks of junk
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12:09 < [Saint]> Yes, iPods are huge hunks of junk...indeed. That's why hundreds, if not thousands of hackers be it open source or otherwise have devoted countless hours of time towards then.
12:09 < [Saint]> Because they're junk...yeah, that makes sense ;)
12:13 < gevaerts> [Saint]: hundreds if not thousands?
12:14 < [Saint]> I'm talking well outside the scope of Rockbox here, and counting unsuvvessful projects also.
12:14 < [Saint]> thousands *might* be a stretch, but if we're talking about any hacker ever that devoted any time towards cracking an ipod...I don't think it would be.
12:14  * gevaerts wants a refence
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12:17 < gevaerts> *reference
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14:04 < benedikt93> to bring up some question of mine again:
14:04 < benedikt93> <benedikt93> hmm, what would it mean if instead of a PE header, something starting with "VZ" (at the place of the usual "PE")  would exist?
14:04 < benedikt93> <TheSeven> benedikt93: so MZ ... VZ ...?
14:04 < benedikt93> <benedikt93> TheSeven, yep
14:04 < benedikt93> does anyone know about this?
14:05 < TheSeven> nope
14:18 < benedikt93> nvm, it's some special EFI executable (a "TE Image")
14:35 < benedikt93> basically a PE stripped down to the minimum of what is needed for it to be used
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15:35 < TheSeven> asmmonkey: how are you getting along?
15:36 < asmmonkey> pretty good
15:39 < asmmonkey> writing an ipod nano 3g loader from scratch
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20:08 < fmibot> New commit by theseven (r424): Create emCORE branch
20:09 < fmibot> r424 build result: All green!
20:16 < fmibot> New commit by theseven (r425): emCORE: Remove unfinished iPod Nano 3G loader
20:16 < fmibot> r425 build result: All green!
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--- Log opened Sat Jan 15 21:07:27 2011
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21:49  * Farthen is wondering how long it takes until embios is deprecated and emCORE is the only real thing to use ;)
21:50  * [Saint] wonders what the fuck he missed with emCORE
21:50 < [Saint]> namely....what is it? 0.o
21:51 < TheSeven> a try at an even more complex and flexible emBIOS :)
21:51 < TheSeven> going to throw some more rockbox paradigms away
21:51 < [Saint]> Ah, you felt like you needed more room for error? :P
21:56  * Farthen brings up the usual naming discussion after TheSeven brings up his semi-annual new thing
21:56 < user890104> why did you choose a new name, doesn't emBIOS 1.x look more suitable? :)
21:57 < [Saint]> "meh..." It could be called "Slappy's Magic Cock-Chine"...and I'd still use it.
21:58 < Farthen> user890104: because it uses a different concept
21:58 < [Saint]> A name is a name.
21:58 < user890104> Farthen: is there more information available about that new concept?
21:59 < Farthen> nope, top secret xD
21:59 < Farthen> user890104: psst, dynamic memory allocation
21:59 < TheSeven> and runtime relocation/linking
21:59 < TheSeven> more towards a full OS than just a "bios"
22:00 < [Saint]> haha...you just *know* that's getting liberated as soon as it hits your SVN ;)
22:00 < [Saint]> assuming it can be kludged into RB
22:00 < [Saint]> relocatable plugins FTW!
22:01  * Farthen thinks that porting rockbox as an app is not the worst idea xD
22:04 < TheSeven> yeah, that's a secondary goal of it: evaluate how bad those things really are and how a rockbox implementation of relocatable plugins and more flexible buffers could look like
22:04 < Farthen> well, changing these fundamental design decisions in rockbox would essentially require a rockbox rewrite
22:04 < TheSeven> not neccessarily
22:04 < Farthen> it would be a lot of work at least
22:04 < TheSeven> the plugin and theming interfaces would probably need to be changed a bit
22:04 < TheSeven> and if you want more flexibility it should be made possible to dynamically resize the skin buffer
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22:06 < Farthen> so you mean that you want to evaluate it with emBIOS to try how it would work out in rockbox?
22:07 < TheSeven> yes, but more as a side-effect
22:07 < [Saint]> TheSeven: kugel already had dynamic skin buffers working at one point.
22:08 < [Saint]> But it was decided it was a crap implementation I believe.
22:09 < [Saint]> and, from what I remember the skin engine didn't need to be touched for gevaerts to get as far as he did with Pebbles, but that is a while ago now...and I may be missremembering this.
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22:23 < TheSeven> [Saint]: it was touched, but not much. but if you want to take full advantage of the new features, you will certainly need to touch it way more
22:51 < fmibot_> New commit by farthen (r426): libembios.py: check for thread struct version
22:52 < fmibot_> r426 build result: All green!
23:06 < kisak> so ipod classic is being excluded from this emCORE creation? (at least for the first build)
23:12 < Farthen> kisak: i'm still working on the buildbot
23:12 < kisak> ok ... so now I'm just thinking the build server is throwing out odd statistics ... it doesn't quite matter how I read it though
23:13 < kisak> Farthen: it's all good
23:57 < fmibot_> New commit by farthen (r427): emCORE: change every 'emBIOS' text string to 'emCORE'

23:58 < fmibot_> r427 build result: All green!
--- Log closed Sun Jan 16 00:00:00 2011