--- Log opened Sat Apr 30 00:31:23 2011
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15:41 < Friskywolf> i need to ask a quick question 
15:42 < benedikt93> you already did, and "IRC" is usually not "Instant reply chat"
15:43 < benedikt93> which exact device are you using?
15:43 < Friskywolf> the ipod Classic 6g 80gb i just want to know if the apple Frimware will dual boot with it ive already installed it or if that is even possible yet
15:45 < Friskywolf> and for some reason rockbox didnt get typed in there
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15:46 < benedikt93> that's currently not possible for some not fully understood reason (and may never be)
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15:47 < benedikt93> I'm not sure, but it might even erase the apple fw
15:47 < Friskywolf> well alright thank very much and good work ive been watching this Project since it started 
15:47 < benedikt93> [7], could you correct my above statements if wrong?
15:47 < Friskywolf> emcore is installed
15:48 < Friskywolf> im sure there is a way well mabye at some point
15:48 < benedikt93> Friskywolf, [7]  is the guy who wrote basically all that stuff, so he'll know
15:48 < Friskywolf> well mabye ill wait until he or she gets here
15:51 < Friskywolf> my heart just started Racing when i saw that it was finaly Possible XD
15:54 < Friskywolf> if [7] never gets back before i have to leave tell im gonna say now great work something to look forward to in the next month for me
16:02 < [7]> Friskywolf: dualboot is in theory possible, but currently fails for a not fully understood reason (the apple firmware's i2c driver locks up)
16:02 < [7]> once someone figures out *why* that's happening, it's probably easy to fix, and at that point we'll consider adding dualboot support
16:02 < [7]> (even if we need to patch ata endianness in the apple firmware)
16:03 < Friskywolf> thanks thats all i needed to hear im gonna bookmark the Website and it could be one and i was about to say that Apple could have something in the frimware
16:03 < Friskywolf> seams more like them to do that
16:03 < Friskywolf> then they can just patch it over with the next update
16:05 < Friskywolf> gotta go
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16:06  * [7] finally fixed his ipod usb cable
16:09 < benedikt93> [7], does the VICRAWINTR(v) register contain the raw interrupt flags as set by the corresponding peripheral?
16:12 < [7]> IIUC yes
16:12 < [7]> see the pl192 datasheet for details
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16:16 < benedikt93> arg, damnit, I even got that one lying around :/
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17:04 < kiddyshaq34> how do I upgrade from embios to emcore on my ipod nano 2g?
17:07 < [7]> that depends on the version of the iloader package that you have installed
17:07 < [7]> if it already has umsboot, it's just a matter of drag'n'dropping the update file :)
17:25 < kiddyshaq34> I'm having a problem now
17:26 < kiddyshaq34> I listened to every instruction on the wiki
17:27 < kiddyshaq34> I copied the ubi file to the umsboot drive, then I safely removed the ipod
17:27 < kiddyshaq34> then all it shows is "emCORE v0.2.2 r708"
17:28 < kiddyshaq34> no error messages
17:28 < kiddyshaq34> my ipod just froze
17:29 < kiddyshaq34> is emcore installing?
17:30 < [7]> no, you seem to have yet another one of those lcds that are acting up
17:30 < [7]> there are some weird ones in the nano2g series, see the release notes
17:30 < kiddyshaq34> I saw the release notes
17:31 < kiddyshaq34> so what do I do now?
17:31 < [7]> there seems to be some incompatibility between certain LCDs and the rgb888=>rgb565 dithering code used by emcore
17:32 < [7]> either figure out what's going on and fix it, or stick with iloader for now
17:32 < kiddyshaq34> how do I figure it out?
17:34 < kiddyshaq34> the lcd is just acting up
17:37 < kiddyshaq34> so do I reboot my ipod nano 2g?
17:37 < kiddyshaq34> or do I just leave my ipod at that state?
17:39 < Farthen> well, if you don't want to use it you could leave it at that state... but there is no real point to do that ;)
17:39 < Farthen> just reboot it, the installed should not have done anything yet
17:39 < Farthen> *installer
17:41 < kiddyshaq34> so should I wait for another version of emcore?
17:47 < kiddyshaq34> what should the ipod nano 2g installer look like?
17:49 < [7]> you should get a nice installation wizard, just like you did with iloader
17:50 < kiddyshaq34> so do I have to wait for another emcore or should I examine the problem?
17:50 < kiddyshaq34> emcore = version of emcore
17:51 < [7]> that depends on whether you're able to do the latter
17:51 < [7]> and as this involves debugging ARM assembly code, you probably don't
17:51 < [7]> s/don't/aren't/
17:54 < kiddyshaq34> is there any code available for emcore?
17:54 < kiddyshaq34> like svn or git
17:55 < benedikt93> svn.freemyipod.org
17:55 < [7]> this file is likely to be the cuprit: http://websvn.freemyipod.org/filedetails.php?repname=freemyipod&path=%2Femcore%2Ftrunk%2Ftarget%2Fipodnano2g%2Flcd.c
17:55 < benedikt93> also websvn.freemyipod.org
18:01 < kiddyshaq34> so where's the problem in lcd.c?
18:02 < [7]> probably somewhere in displaylcd_dither
18:09 < kiddyshaq34> I don't know any arm assembly, so I don't know if there's a problem
18:11 < [7]> ja
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18:36 < kiddyshaq34> embios's lcd code is good
18:36 < [7]> hm, how do you mean that?
18:37 < kiddyshaq34> so why didn't we base emcore's lcd code off of embios's lcd code?
18:38 < [7]> we did that (that's why the "emCORE" splash message still appears), but one of the new features (rgb888 dithering) seems to be broken on that lcd type
18:40 < kiddyshaq34> why can't the rgb888 dithering be scrapped?
18:41 < [7]> because the installer uses it
18:41 < [7]> (and also the boot menu)
18:42 < [7]> rgb888 is the new general-purpose framebuffer format, to ensure compatibility across different devices
18:42 < [7]> and the lcd driver is responsible for converting it into whatever it needs
18:45 < kiddyshaq34> this problem is hard to sort out
18:46 < [7]> it would probably be easy to sort out if i had one of those weird lcds...
18:47 < [7]> if you want to help diagnose the problem, can you go to diagmode and check the lcd_detect values? (others => status => second page)
18:53 < kiddyshaq34> it has two lcd_detect values
18:54 < kiddyshaq34> lcd_detect0:0 lcd_detect1:1
19:34 < kiddyshaq34> [7]?
19:34 < [7]> hm, that's an ilitek lcd
19:34 < [7]> i thought that those worked...
19:44 < kiddyshaq34> so what's the workaround for those lcds?
19:54 < Farthen> there is none yet. that's the point -.-
19:55 < Farthen> if there was one this would have gotten fixed long ago
19:57 < kiddyshaq34> is there any initialisation code for ilitek lcds?
20:03 < Farthen> there is but that is not the point
20:04 < Farthen> you need to wait until this gets fixed
20:05 < Farthen> or fix it yourself, but that would proabably be pretty hard for you
20:06 < kiddyshaq34> Farthen, is the ilitek lcd initialisation code in lcd.c
20:06 < kiddyshaq34> ?
20:06 < Farthen> the initialization code is in the emcore loader. but that is not the problem
20:07 < Farthen> the problem is a small bug - somewhere
20:07 < Farthen> may i ask you if you know c or anything about embedded development?
20:07 < kiddyshaq34> Farthen, I know a little bit of c
20:09 < Farthen> ok, the point is that all of our information about these lcds was gathered by reverse engineering code.... and the init sequences are written in asm
20:10 < [7]> ah, wait, I think I have an idea
20:10 < [7]> DMA transfers apparently work
20:10 < [7]> and other data writes seem to have no effect at all...
20:11 < kiddyshaq34> [7], what do you mean?
20:12 < Farthen> this means that he may have found the cause of this bug
20:12  * [7] remembers something odd in a config register for one of the LCD types
20:12 < [7]> but that was on the ipod classic...
20:12 < [7]> hm, no, that can't be it
20:13 < [7]> however the relationship to DMA is at least a valuable hint
20:32 < user890104_> what is needed to support sleep/hibernation on nano2g?
20:36 < Farthen> user890104_: sleep/hibernation support in the emcore loader
20:36 < [7]> not only there
20:36 < Farthen> and in emcore
20:36 < Farthen> and in rockbox
20:36 < [7]> rockbox would have to do the hardest part
20:36 < [7]> and in emcore it's pretty much useless anyway
20:36 < Farthen> would it be that hard?
20:37 < Farthen> i thought that the ram just stayed the same after restore
20:37 < [7]> but in theory we could start by supporting the OF's sleep function in the loader
20:37 < Farthen> so you just need to save the registers and restore them again, am i wrong?
20:37 < [7]> "just"
20:38 < [7]> including all of the peripheral registers, starting from e.g. DMA/I2S, the codec, the PMU, the LCD, ...
20:38 < [7]> you basically need to do the same thing that you need to do when switching a PC into suspend to ram
20:38 < Farthen> are you sure those don't stay the same after a sleep?
20:38 < [7]> and in the linux world you can often see how fragile that is
20:39 < [7]> all those things are powered down completely during sleep
20:39 < Farthen> those ipods are *super fast* in restoring from sleep
20:39 < [7]> even the SRAM contents are lost
20:39 < Farthen> really, it's like less than 200ms or something like that IIRC
20:40 < Farthen> there couldn't be that much stuff going on then
20:40 < [7]> yes, and i'm seriously impressed by the EFI bootloader on the nano4g managing to do that, but taking like 3 seconds to display its logo
20:40 < [7]> restoring that kind of state doesn't take long, but it's complex
20:41 < Farthen> does that thing have different sleep modes or only one?
20:41 < [7]> when doing it properly you would not only lose another 200KB of RAM, but also need awareness of it at rockbox's audio buffering layer, which is kind of a beast
20:41 < benedikt93> [7], on the nano3g, EFI doesn't handle hibernation IIRC
20:42 < [7]> who else?
20:42 < Farthen> and yeah, it's probably only that fast bacause steve would have killed the developers otherwise :-P
20:42 < [7]> i'd expect that to be rather early in the process though, somewhere in peicore
20:42 < benedikt93> pei checks for "ebih" at sdramstart and then loads the code from there (IIRC again)
20:42 < [7]> yep
20:42 < benedikt93> I don't think EFI is there, though I didn't check
20:43 < [7]> well, peicore is a part of EFI in my terms :)
20:44 < benedikt93> but it's no the sluggish part of it :)
20:44 < Farthen> but pei ist pretty much self-contained so that should not be a huge speed loss
20:44 < Farthen> *is
20:46 < [7]> actually i'm wondering why the rest is so slow
20:46 < [7]> it doesn't look *that* bloated to me
20:46 < [7]> and yeah, it's running on a 266MHz ARM11!
20:47 < benedikt93> probably dxe setting up all its "memory based services"
20:47 < benedikt93> the overhead of the code is huge due to efi
20:48 < [7]> yeah, but not like a factor of 10
20:48 < [7]> and i bet the same things could be done 10 times as fast
20:55 < benedikt93> 20s or so is a lot of course
20:56 < benedikt93> also EFI is said to be fast (on PCs)
20:56 < benedikt93> maybe Apple's implemenatation is poor, I'm pretty sure they violate the specs all of the place
20:57 < benedikt93> *all over
20:58 < [7]> well, EFI is faster than that ancient 16bit emulation add-in card booting and vga support
21:05 < Farthen> but the efi does not take 20 seconds, does it? the long part is the osos boot process i thought
21:11 < benedikt93> actually I don't know which takes how long
21:12 < benedikt93> may be that osos is the culprit
21:13 < benedikt93> if it accesses the fw partition contents a lot (with decryption/decompression) that may explain this
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23:14 < kiddyshaq34> so do we need to fix lcd_detect or displaylcd_dither?
23:35 < kiddyshaq34> bye
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--- Log closed Sun May 01 00:00:06 2011