--- Log opened Mon Jan 02 00:03:25 2012 00:03 -!- clustur [~logger@c-98-249-104-118.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #freemyipod 00:03 -!- clustur [~logger@c-98-249-104-118.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:03 -!- alberthrocks [~alberthro@pool-108-12-172-6.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:03 -!- alberthrocks_ [~alberthro@pool-108-12-171-119.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has joined #freemyipod 00:26 < user890104> [7]: should we add a notice that users need to manually remove fastboot (init.emcoreapp), because the installer doesn't automaticly remove it as of the new release? 00:27 < [Saint_]> Wont that add up to API missmatches again? 00:27 < [Saint_]> Why was that removed? Its "safe". 00:28 < [Saint_]> Enough people got caught by it to prove its a worthwhile addition IMO. 00:28 < user890104> well i saw in the svn log that [7] removed the "remove("/.boot/init.emcoreapp")" line from the installer 00:29 < user890104> and i'm sure he has a good reason to do that 00:29 < [Saint_]> Possibly a mistake? 00:30 < [Saint_]> I can't think of a good reason to remove it, as it was added for a good reason...and afaik that is still a valid concern. 00:33 < user890104> ah, it was probalby a mistake 00:33 < user890104> http://websvn.freemyipod.org/comp.php?repname=freemyipod&compare[]=/apps/installer-ipodclassic/main.c@834&compare[]=/apps/installer-ipodclassic/main.c@835 00:33 < user890104> he might be testing something and forgot to revert it back :) 00:34 < [Saint_]> Its a tough call.. but I'd put it back. 00:35 < [Saint_]> The additional support isn't qorth the hassle :) 00:35 < [Saint_]> *worth 00:35 < user890104> in theory this should be gone since fastboot is not an app anymore 00:35 < [Saint_]> Oh? 00:35 < [Saint_]> Ah...I see. Very well. 00:35 < Farthen> but init.emcoreapp should still be prefered, shouldn't it? 00:36 < Farthen> can someone test this? 00:36 < user890104> but on the other side, *any* init app could be wrong version after an update 00:36 < user890104> Farthen: init.emcoreapp should be avoided for fastboot 00:36 < user890104> there's a menu setting for that 00:36 < [Saint_]> Yeah...id say its best to have this safety net. 00:36 < Farthen> well but if fastboot is still there 00:36 < Farthen> it will not be removed 00:36 < user890104> if it's still there, it would boot 00:37 < user890104> now it won't be, but it should 00:37 < user890104> it's wrong only on the classics 00:37 < user890104> on nano2g it would be removed after an update 00:37 < Farthen> well, it would boot because the min_api_version was not increased 00:37 < user890104> i think it was 00:37 -!- alberthrocks_ [~alberthro@pool-108-12-171-119.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:37 < Farthen> if it was this breaks the upgrade for all fastboot users 00:37 < user890104> 7 rearranged some calls iirc 00:38 < user890104> exactly 00:38 < Farthen> it will definitely break the upgrade for any fastboot users coming from a version with a lower min_api_version 00:38 < user890104> which is ... all fastboot users 00:39 < [Saint_]> Sit back and wait for the support requests to roll in? Poke [7]? 00:39 < Farthen> no 00:39 < Farthen> it's fine 00:39 < Farthen> classic users will reformat :-P 00:39 < [Saint_]> Ah! 00:39 < Farthen> because of the change in hdd endianess 00:40 < [Saint_]> *this time* :) 00:40 < [Saint_]> Next time? :) 00:40 < Farthen> still i don't think it hurts removing it 00:40 < Farthen> i guess we should still put it back for later releases because i see no reason for it being not there 00:40 < Farthen> alternative would be fixing emcore 00:41 < Farthen> to check the version of apps itself 00:41 < Farthen> and act accordingly 00:42 < Farthen> interestingly fastboot was downloded by about half of the emcore population last time i checked 00:42 < Farthen> so basically we would have already noticed if it didn't work :-P 00:43 < Farthen> incredibly silent on irc actually 00:43 < Farthen> i am wondering if this is a good sign or a bad one 00:44 < user890104> [02:39:38] classic users will reformat :-P << they could make a full backup of their hdd before updating :P 00:44 < Farthen> yes they could do that 00:44 < Farthen> but i guess most will only make a backup of their music 00:44 < Farthen> s/guess/hope 00:45 < user890104> fastboot users are lazy 00:45 < user890104> they don't want to press one more button when booting 00:45 < user890104> so they'll backup the whole drive :) 00:46 < Farthen> i hope not :-P 00:46 < user890104> like ctrl+a, ctrl+c, open folder, ctrl+v, done 00:46 < user890104> hoping won't help 00:47 < Farthen> they need to upgrade rockbox too 00:47 < Farthen> so they can't just do that 00:47 < user890104> they will try 00:47 < user890104> and get stuck with the old api version issue 00:47 < Farthen> but we can't change that 00:47 < user890104> even before trying to update rockbox 00:48 < user890104> and .. how would they update rockbox? 00:48 < Farthen> because when the installation happens they would have already backed up 00:48 < user890104> they would boot the old version, which won't work 00:48 < Farthen> no they can't 00:49 < user890104> ah .. there's no old version 00:49 < user890104> it's formatted 00:49 < Farthen> it got deleted 00:49 < Farthen> they need to boot the fallback image 00:49 < user890104> so they'll boot the fallback, then restore their full backup, reboot and ... bang! 00:49 < user890104> wrong api version :P 00:49 -!- [Saint] [~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940] has joined #freemyipod 00:49 < Farthen> ah but also wrong rockbox version 00:49 < Farthen> so they need emcore tools anyways 00:50 < user890104> wrong api version before wrong rockbox version 00:50 < user890104> no, they can upgrade rockbox if emcore is working 00:50 < Farthen> i hope the users won't be that stupid :) 00:50 < user890104> by using the fallback image 00:50 * user890104 won't bet on that 00:50 < Farthen> you don't have to 00:50 < user890104> i mean, based on what i've seen so far... 00:50 < Farthen> but as you are going to do the support anyways 00:51 < Farthen> i don't care :-P 00:51 < user890104> i know u don't 00:51 -!- alberthrocks_ [~alberthro@pool-108-12-171-119.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has joined #freemyipod 00:52 -!- [Saint_] [~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:55 -!- paulo_ [~paulo@112.204.8.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:01 < Farthen> most people seem to be asleep right now. we only have like 9 classic downloads and 3 nano 2g downloads 01:01 < Farthen> or people don't want to upgrade 01:01 < Farthen> i have no idea :-P 01:05 * user890104 upgrades 01:06 < Farthen> i see you :-P 01:07 < user890104> classic done 01:08 < user890104> .execimage: decompression failed 01:08 < user890104> on nano2g 01:08 < Farthen> do it properly 01:08 < Farthen> with umsboot 01:08 < user890104> i'm doing it like thart 01:08 < user890104> that* 01:09 < Farthen> ah, umsboot complains? 01:09 < Farthen> boot the osos and try bootnote 01:09 < user890104> repeated with umsboot, same thing 01:09 < user890104> let's see the bootnote 01:09 < Farthen> which revision did you use before? 01:10 < user890104> 848 01:10 < user890104> i'm still at it on n2g 01:10 < Farthen> don't tell me last release otherwise i would need to kill you 01:10 < Farthen> ok 01:10 < Farthen> :-P 01:10 < user890104> why? can't i upgrade from svn head to release? 01:10 < user890104> or more likely from my build to 7's 01:11 -!- [Saint] [~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:11 < user890104> appleos.bin doesn't boot 01:11 < Farthen> the latter may be the problem 01:11 < user890104> it's there 01:11 < Farthen> your build may be broken 01:11 < Farthen> restore with itunes 01:11 < Farthen> install the old release 01:11 < Farthen> and upgrade 01:11 < Farthen> and look if it works 01:12 < user890104> restore nano2g? it doesn't have dfu 01:12 < Farthen> uhm, disk mode? 01:12 < user890104> yeah but... 01:12 < Farthen> but what? 01:12 < user890104> aupd would never run 01:12 < user890104> i need to uninstall emcore 01:12 < Farthen> you can't boot disk mode? 01:12 < user890104> i can 01:12 < Farthen> ah, i see 01:12 < user890104> i can't boot osos 01:13 < user890104> from the flash 01:13 < user890104> nand flash -> data partition -> /.boot/appleos.bin 01:13 < user890104> it used to boot before 01:13 < Farthen> then just use the built in uninstall method 01:14 < user890104> i forgot to mention to [7] that it doesn't boot in the recent releases 01:14 < Farthen> you may have screwed sth up in your build 01:14 < user890104> it's not only this one but also the previous 01:14 < user890104> my build is fine 01:14 < Farthen> try the release. if that doesn't work too we have a problem 01:14 < user890104> i'll update with libemcore 01:14 < user890104> i did a clean reinstall recently 01:14 < Farthen> if you think so 01:17 * user890104 wonders why uninstalling doesn't have a yes/no prompt 01:18 -!- el3ctrik [~el3ctrik@2a00:1c10:3:634:216:3eff:fe98:c8f1] has joined #freemyipod 01:18 < Farthen> weren't confirmation prompts added to destructive operations? 01:18 < user890104> isn't uninstalling one of them? 01:18 < user890104> appleos still doesn't boot 01:18 < Farthen> do a clean install and try again 01:19 < user890104> that's what i did 01:19 < Farthen> with itunes restore? 01:19 -!- [Saint] [~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940] has joined #freemyipod 01:19 < user890104> no 01:19 < Farthen> do that 01:19 < user890104> but... 01:19 < Farthen> i'm sorry but i won't call back a release because you fail at testing for sth 01:19 < Farthen> so pls do a clean install to prove it really doesn't work 01:20 < user890104> 00itunes sux 01:20 < Farthen> [Saint]: do you have a nano 2g? 01:20 < Farthen> i think do you, right? 01:20 < [Saint]> I do...but I'm miles away from a workstation. 01:20 < Farthen> ok 01:20 < [Saint]> Sorry guys. 01:20 < Farthen> anyone else with a nano 2g in here? 01:20 < Farthen> we need to test for a bug which is going to upset some people 01:21 < alberthrocks_> upset? :P 01:21 -!- alberthrocks_ is now known as alberthrocks 01:21 < Farthen> alberthrocks: do you have a nano 2g? 01:22 < alberthrocks> nope, 4g 01:22 < Farthen> too bad. we may have some apple os booting problem for the n2g 01:22 < alberthrocks> I was about to ask you guys what ETA you have for the nano 4g :P 01:22 < Farthen> ETA: never :-P 01:22 < alberthrocks> heh :P 01:22 * user890104 launches iTunes 01:23 < Farthen> except when you want to learn disassembling crappy apple firmware 01:23 < Farthen> we are the arm asm training camp 01:23 < alberthrocks> Nah. I'm the Z80 guy who doesn't really know it well at all :P 01:23 < Farthen> we teach people arm asm and disassembling 01:24 < Farthen> then they do some minor stuff 01:24 < Farthen> and walk away 01:24 < Farthen> :-P 01:24 * user890104 didn't walk away 01:25 < Farthen> oh but you don't seem to be interested in continuing to reverse engineer the nand driver, are you? 01:25 < alberthrocks> There are some people in the other community I'm in who do know some ARM ASM... but they're more interested in writing for the TI-Nspire than for iPods :P 01:25 < Farthen> arm asm isn't hard 01:25 < Farthen> and if you can do z80 you can do this one too 01:26 < alberthrocks> Hmm, maybe. Tell you what. If I get bored and learn ARM ASM for the Nspire, then I'll join you :P 01:26 < alberthrocks> "who doesn't really know it well at all" :P 01:26 < Farthen> ah, we can change that 01:26 < user890104> Farthen: i'm lacking hardware knowledge, so i can't disassemble something that i don't know what's it supposed to do 01:26 < Farthen> if you in turn reverse engineed the flash driver 01:26 < Farthen> *reverse enginner 01:26 < Farthen> :-P 01:26 < [Saint]> Inspired...uuurgh 01:27 < [Saint]> *Nspire even 01:27 < alberthrocks> Nspire hacking development is fun to watch, actually. 01:27 < Farthen> user890104: a "nand flash" is some IC which is supposed to store data bits. you can read and write data to and from it 01:27 < Farthen> user890104: there is your explanation 01:27 < alberthrocks> TI does stupid things, like make routines for "nop" (yes, "nop"), but they aren't _that_ stupid. 01:27 < Farthen> user890104: will you reverse engineer it now? 01:28 < user890104> Farthen: it's an EFI module 01:28 < user890104> i know nothing about efi 01:28 < [Saint]> nop routines? Delightful. 01:28 < user890104> except the meaning of its abbreviation 01:28 < Farthen> ah, you can look if you find the nand driver in osos 01:29 < Farthen> except that it may be missing the init routines 01:29 < alberthrocks> [Saint]: It's kinda hilarious, if not sad: http://wikiti.brandonw.net/index.php?title=83Plus:BCALLs:4CBD (TI-8x platform, Z80) 01:30 -!- el3ctrik is now known as el3ctrik-away 01:30 < [Saint]> Hmmm... 01:30 < user890104> Farthen: bootnote on just restored nano2g puts it in reboot loop 01:31 < Farthen> are you kidding me? 01:31 < user890104> uhm no 01:31 < Farthen> MAKE IT SO THAT THIS ISN'T TRUE AND THIS RELEASE JUST WORKS PROPERLY KTHXBYE 01:31 < user890104> it shows the OF main menu for a split second 01:31 < user890104> then it reboots 01:32 < Farthen> try the other installation method 01:32 < user890104> ipodx? 01:32 < Farthen> yup 01:32 < [Saint]> That's concerning. 01:32 < Farthen> this release may be completely fucked up for nano 2g users 01:32 < [Saint]> Bootnote is the "it just works" method. 01:33 < [Saint]> Or, was. 01:33 < Farthen> i remember how 7 said this was the most untested emcore release ever 01:33 < Farthen> like 2 hours ago 01:33 < [Saint]> Normally he runs it by me...but news of a release came as a surprise. 01:33 < Farthen> if this one crashes too we may need to do some ninja action 01:34 < [Saint]> I assume he asks you guys to test also? 01:34 < user890104> Farthen: ipodx installs, still no appleos.bin though 01:34 < Farthen> he is busy next week and wanted to get it out before that 01:34 < [Saint]> Ah. 01:34 < Farthen> oh, he would ask me if i had some device that worked 01:37 < Farthen> i fixed the releases page 01:38 < Farthen> classic builds are still up though. i guess we should hotfix this 01:38 < user890104> ok, so at least the bugs are known 01:39 < Farthen> user890104: can you check for the revision with the regression? 01:39 < user890104> Farthen: maybe tomorrow 01:40 < alberthrocks> Farthen: So.... NAND driver is of utmost importance for ports? :P 01:40 < Farthen> well 01:40 < Farthen> if you can't read the flash… 01:40 < Farthen> you can't load stuff from it 01:40 < alberthrocks> I'm only interested because joyful Banshee keeps f'ing up my iTunesDB every time. 01:41 < Farthen> well, after NAND comes the NAND dump 01:41 < Farthen> when we have a raw nand image we can then look at the internal structure 01:41 < alberthrocks> Ahh, makes sense. 01:41 < Farthen> then we find out it uses some flash translation layer we never hear about 01:41 < Farthen> *heard 01:41 < alberthrocks> I'm assuming there's no "IDA Pro" in this? :P 01:42 < Farthen> don't get me started on IDA 01:42 < alberthrocks> hehe :P 01:42 < alberthrocks> What's your toolchain target? 01:42 < Farthen> arm-elf-eabi 01:42 < Farthen> you mean for emcore, right? 01:43 < alberthrocks> Whatever you want me to try and "disassemble" :P 01:43 < alberthrocks> If that's the one, I'll get started on building the toolchain 01:44 < Farthen> you don't have to be able to compile code in order to disassemble it :) 01:44 < Farthen> so you really want to do this? hint: this is going to be painful and you will most likely not get until the end 01:44 < Farthen> and we all have like no experience in EFI 01:44 < Farthen> the only guy who has will be super busy the whole week 01:45 < alberthrocks> No commitments, and no guarantees ;) 01:45 < alberthrocks> Just for fun. 01:45 < alberthrocks> I will be busy as well this month - midterms :P 01:45 < Farthen> ok, we are basically throwing you into the frozen lake now 01:45 < alberthrocks> sounds painful :P 01:45 < Farthen> it is not the fall that hurts 01:45 < Farthen> :-P 01:46 < alberthrocks> have any recommended versions of GCC, binutils, etc.? 01:46 < alberthrocks> And what about newlib? 01:46 < Farthen> what is your operating system? 01:46 < alberthrocks> ... 01:46 < Farthen> ah, right 01:46 < alberthrocks> Linux :P 01:46 < Farthen> i remember :-P 01:46 < alberthrocks> I would be a simply ignorant person if I weren't. 01:46 < alberthrocks> My server uses Debian 6. 01:46 < alberthrocks> 32 bit 01:47 < Farthen> oh, i wouldn't say not using linux is ignorant. but not using UNIX is :) 01:47 < alberthrocks> Oh no, I mean ignorant in attempting you help you guys ;) 01:47 < alberthrocks> Works either way. 01:47 < Farthen> do you have a running ida pro? 01:48 < Farthen> the recommended toolchain is the rockbox one btw 01:48 < alberthrocks> ehh... if I emulate it in WINE, sure. 01:49 < Farthen> for the toolchain: look here under "building": http://www.freemyipod.org/wiki/EmBIOS 01:49 < Farthen> (ignore the "outdated" header) 01:49 < Farthen> i can't find any more recent information 01:49 < Farthen> :-P 01:49 < alberthrocks> Hmm, interesting. 01:50 < alberthrocks> I was going to reuse the script I used for Nspire development, but the Rockbox page says they already have one :) 01:52 < alberthrocks> Rockbox SVN must be feeling sick today 01:52 < alberthrocks> New Year's blues, I guess :P 01:53 < alberthrocks> Oops, guess I spoke too soon 01:54 < alberthrocks> Just curious, how does media transfer on Rockbox work? And does it support MKVs? 02:01 * Farthen can't answer that question for you 02:01 * Farthen doesn't have a rockbox capable device 02:01 * Farthen only has this nano 4g 02:01 < Farthen> so yeah, if you do progress on the nano 4g i would be happy :-P 02:02 < Farthen> media transfer works by copying over files 02:03 < Farthen> on a file system 02:03 < Farthen> no syncing and stuff. this is why i won't be using rockbox even if it worked on my computer 02:03 < Farthen> but i'd like to have a fully working emcore port to play around with :) 02:04 < alberthrocks> Oh that's great either way :P 02:04 < alberthrocks> Copying files over is a LOT more fun then dealing with a broken iPod :P 02:04 < Farthen> you want to deal with a broken ipod? 02:04 < Farthen> i can help you with that 02:04 < alberthrocks> And I'm pretty sure I could hack up something really fast with Python + inotify 02:05 < alberthrocks> I am supposedly going to break my ipod again to give you guys a possible ipod nano 5g exploit... 02:05 < Farthen> i don't have any nano 5g so i don't care xD 02:05 < alberthrocks> A temporary software brick, if you'd like. 02:05 < Farthen> temporary? 02:05 < Farthen> that doesn't sound like fun 02:06 < Farthen> you should rather try to do a permanent brick 02:06 < alberthrocks> nah :P 02:06 < alberthrocks> Permanent = no restore fix? 02:06 < Farthen> anything else wouldn't be permanent, would it? 02:07 < Farthen> i already know one. it involves a hammer and physical force 02:07 < alberthrocks> heh :P 02:07 < alberthrocks> Or broken enough to necessitate a purchase of a NAND flasher :P 02:07 < Farthen> this won't work 02:07 < user890104> Farthen: messing up with the voltages in PMU can also give you some permanent break :) 02:08 < Farthen> yeah, exactly 02:08 < Farthen> the nand can have *any* content 02:08 < Farthen> it would still be able to be restored 02:08 < Farthen> because DFU is in the readonly bootrom 02:08 < alberthrocks> Oooh, classic brick: leave it in your pocket and wash it :P 02:09 < alberthrocks> Farthen: Sounds just like the iOS devices. ;) 02:09 < Farthen> it's the other way round 02:09 < Farthen> those devices came first :-P 02:09 < Farthen> and the iOS devices are doing it the same way 02:10 < Farthen> stupid useless side note: the nano 4g is capable of booting cds 02:10 < Farthen> cd in the sense of compact disk 02:10 < alberthrocks> heh :P 02:10 < alberthrocks> Couldn't some of the bootrom exploits be shared with the iPod Nanos? 02:11 < Farthen> if you don't know what a compact disk is - here are some pictures of it: http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1264&bih=1232&q=compact+disk 02:11 < Farthen> yeah, we already use some from the iOS devices 02:11 < Farthen> it's really great. they discover exploits and we recycle them 02:11 < alberthrocks> Done! buildbot@withgusto:~/rockbox/tools$ arm-elf-eabi-gcc / arm-elf-eabi-gcc: no input files 02:12 < Farthen> pwnage 2.0 is an iOS device exploit. planetbeing helped port it 02:12 < alberthrocks> I never hear of that guy these days. Must've left the jailbreaking community, eh? 02:12 < Farthen> or died? dunno 02:12 < Farthen> he just disappeared 02:13 < alberthrocks> His Twitter is dead as well. 02:13 < Farthen> it happened to him once before for like half a year 02:13 < Farthen> then he returned as if nothing happened 02:13 < alberthrocks> Some apple fanboy kidnapped him? :P 02:13 < Farthen> but now it's been more than one and a half years and i have no idea what happened 02:14 < alberthrocks> Are there any other devs who have disappeared? 02:14 < Farthen> are you going to start a conspiracy theory? 02:14 < Farthen> i just want to do a quick note: this channel is not for conspiracy theories 02:15 < alberthrocks> Uh... no? :P 02:15 < Farthen> if you really want to start a conspiracy theory, post it on reddit 02:15 < Farthen> people will like it 02:15 < alberthrocks> heh :P 02:15 < alberthrocks> I'm just curious. I haven't been following the iOS JB scene for a long time. 02:15 -!- [Saint_] [~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940] has joined #freemyipod 02:16 < Farthen> btw where are you located? are you a never sleeping european or an american? 02:16 < alberthrocks> American :P 02:16 < alberthrocks> Who loves to study the SATs! 02:17 < Farthen> i see. i belong to the former species 02:17 < alberthrocks> And eat junk food, and live in a crappy government ;) 02:17 < Farthen> well, i thought the word "American" already implies the other things inplicitly 02:17 < Farthen> *implicitly 02:18 < alberthrocks> The only thing true about me is the !(first) :P 02:18 -!- [Saint] [~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:18 < alberthrocks> [Now you know my age range! :P] 02:19 < Farthen> american education has always confused me 02:19 < Farthen> for me you could be between 10 and 30 years now 02:19 < Farthen> :-P 02:20 < Farthen> as you are talking proper english i supposed you must be older than 10 though 02:20 < alberthrocks> There are people <10 years here? O_O 02:21 < Farthen> oh, we had 13 years old people in here at least 02:21 < alberthrocks> Did they disassemble NAND drivers? :P 02:22 < Farthen> no, they had other dreams: "i am going to do an operating system which will run windws, linux and mac os programs all at once!" 02:22 < Farthen> well, whatever 02:22 < Farthen> people these days seem to be not inerested in disassembling drivers 02:23 < Farthen> and i can understand that. it is easier to write your own programming language i guess 02:23 < alberthrocks> An OS that runs Windows and Linux is not impossible :P 02:24 < alberthrocks> I think there's some patch/software for Linux that lets you run EXEs with WINE... without putting "wine " before it :P 02:24 < alberthrocks> Now Mac... good luck with that. :P 02:24 < alberthrocks> And of course! No one likes to play with raw assembly :P 02:24 < Farthen> it's probably easier to run everything on mac than any of the other possibilities 02:25 < alberthrocks> Heh, maybe. VMWare/VirtualBox, anyone? 02:25 < Farthen> this is no raw assembly. this is obfuscated raw assembly. at least it is so complicated that people might think so 02:26 < Farthen> things we learned from trying to disassemble this piece of shit: apple does not tend to overengineer. apple tends to overengineer *a lot* more than any sensible human being would ever do 02:27 < alberthrocks> Pursuit of perfection? 02:27 < Farthen> thus i think it is safe to draw the conclusion that one the craziest of all crazy people at apple work in the low level driver development team 02:27 < Farthen> *only 02:28 < alberthrocks> Well, I can't say I would be surprised if I saw such code in their iMacs, like DFU mode ;P 02:29 < Farthen> not to say that all people in the low level driver development team must have been completely stupid, evil and have had a brain surgery at most two weeks before thinking that it is a good idea to put EFI on these things 02:30 < Farthen> ok, enough rant. let's give you the idb + entry point 02:35 < Farthen> ok great. let me open the idb too 02:36 < Farthen> you can already look if you find the entry point to the nand driver yourself 02:37 < alberthrocks> I can't open it; what's the version of IDA you're using? 02:37 < alberthrocks> It says "newer version needed" 02:38 < Farthen> you obviously have an older version then :-P 02:38 < Farthen> let me check my version 02:38 < Farthen> 6.1 02:39 < alberthrocks> I'll have to check my "sources" :P 03:24 -!- [7] [~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:24 -!- TheSeven [~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has joined #freemyipod 04:10 < Farthen> creepy things are happening on th ml 04:11 < Farthen> i think i am going to sleep now before crazy things are happening and i will not sleep at all anymore 04:12 * Farthen will now ignore any ml posting until 14:00am GMT+1 04:40 -!- [Saint_] [~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:44 -!- [Saint] [~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940] has joined #freemyipod 05:24 -!- [Saint] [~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:26 -!- [Saint] [~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940] has joined #freemyipod 05:30 -!- paulo_ [~paulo@112.204.8.17] has joined #freemyipod 05:58 -!- alberthrocks [~alberthro@pool-108-12-171-119.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:03 -!- clustur [~logger@c-98-249-104-118.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #freemyipod 06:03 -!- clustur [~logger@c-98-249-104-118.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:12 -!- alberthrocks [~alberthro@pool-108-12-167-103.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has joined #freemyipod 06:48 -!- alberthrocks [~alberthro@pool-108-12-167-103.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:58 -!- [Saint] [~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940] has quit [Quit: I know its a sin to kiss and swallow.] 06:58 -!- [Saint] [~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940] has joined #freemyipod 07:02 -!- alberthrocks [~alberthro@pool-108-12-167-103.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has joined #freemyipod 07:33 -!- [Saint] [~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:34 -!- [Saint] [~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940] has joined #freemyipod 07:44 -!- ShapeShifter499 [~ShapeShif@c-98-244-33-205.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #freemyipod 08:12 < TheSeven> user890104: any clue what happened wrt. OF boot? 08:12 < TheSeven> i indeed didn't test that because I never use the OF and don't hink much has changed wrt. this 08:14 < TheSeven> how did you manage to get that "decompression failed" error? i've never seen that. 08:17 < [Saint]> FWIW, I tested here...noteboot did *nothing* at all on N2G, and .ipodx installs and boots, but can't boot the OF. 08:18 < [Saint]> user890104 got a bootloop from noteboot iirc, my attempt just saw it ignored. As if it weren't there. 08:23 < TheSeven> your behavior is roughly what I would have expected 08:24 < TheSeven> notebook is a rather fragile thing that was never recommended 08:24 < TheSeven> we might as well remove that again 08:24 < TheSeven> noteboot* :P 08:24 < [Saint]> I always use it as the "it just works" method... 08:25 * TheSeven wonders what's going on with OF boot 08:25 < [Saint]> This is the first time noteboot has failed for me, ever. 08:25 < TheSeven> interesting... need to look into this tonight 08:26 < [Saint]> Whereas I've had corrupt .ipodx files, or seemingly corrupt, many a time. 08:26 < TheSeven> i'll leave this as is right now (nano2g file links removed) until tonight, there aren't many nano2g users anyway 08:27 < [Saint]> Are you going to put back the check to delete init.emcoreapp again? 08:28 < TheSeven> hm, i seem to have ignored that there are CE-ATA ipods while thinking through that change 08:28 < TheSeven> these might get into trouble... 08:29 < TheSeven> I really don't like the installer doing this kind of thing, and as we don't advise users to put this file there any more I'm wondering if just changing the autoboot filename of emcore is the better way to fix this 08:31 < TheSeven> (btw, if anyone should ever want to install fastboot for some odd reason, do it as /.apps/bootmenu/theme.emcoreapp, this is easier to fix if it goes wrong) 08:37 < [Saint]> Fastboot as a theme?!? 08:38 < [Saint]> Also...I kinda think fastboot should be the default for end users...but it's your boat, you float it how you want to :) 08:38 < [Saint]> Most people just want it to boot Rockbox, holding a button to get to the boot menu would be "cleaner" IMO. 08:39 < [Saint]> It's just another buttonpress for most people I would imagine (those not using fastboot). 08:52 -!- ShapeShifter499 [~ShapeShif@c-98-244-33-205.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:56 < [Saint]> Its probably just my opinion, I know I can't speak for anyone else, but...yeah. As useful as the many features of emCORE are, I think a vast majority of end users are using it solely as a Rockbox bootloader. I've even talked to a few people that actually uninstalled emCORE (until I told them of fastboot) because it was too daunting for them, and ending up in any of the menus (other than the Rockbox shortcut) was accidental and provoked an 08:58 < [Saint]> I know its an advanced tool, for experienced users...and it tries to be as user friendly as possible. But since the Classic, and there being no alternative bootloader, more and more people are using it...or attempting to. 09:02 < [Saint]> Users that don't want the fastboot feature will be capable of removing it themselves I'd say. If you want to use emCORE to do anything other than boot Rockbox you're *probably* somewhat techno-literate. 09:06 < TheSeven> i think users should manage to figure out how to enable fastboot if they want to. if they don't, this needs a howto. 09:07 < TheSeven> if we enable fastboot by default users will have much less of a chance to figure out how to recover things themselves 09:07 < TheSeven> (because 1. the boot menu is largely unknown to them and 2. they might not even figure out how to launch it) 09:08 < TheSeven> temporary fix for 160gb thick ce-ata ipod classic users that don't read the release notes and run into "incompatible api version": re-bootstrap through DFU, downgrade to r708, upgrade to r855 again 09:08 < TheSeven> that should kill init.emcoreapp 09:42 < [Saint]> Maybe I'm wrong...but I think the large majority of users will never touch the boot menu apart from the obvious one, the rockbox logo. 09:43 < [Saint]> I d talked to users that were literally scared of the fact they entered s sub-menu instead of booting rb. 09:43 < [Saint]> *I've talked. 09:46 < [Saint]> For the general populous I think it should behave just like a "normal" bootloader and only uncover itself on boot with a key combo (or perhaps from within rockbox, as a plugin?) 09:46 < [Saint]> launch_emcore.rock 09:49 < [Saint]> (Which wouldn't be a "real" plugin in the Rockbox sense, just a "shutdown and reboot into boot menu" ...thing.) 09:50 < [Saint]> Just an idea...I guess I have different ideas on sanity from an end users pov. 10:20 -!- liar [~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at] has joined #freemyipod 10:50 -!- [Saint] [~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:59 -!- el3ctrik-away is now known as el3ctrik 11:00 -!- el3ctrik [~el3ctrik@2a00:1c10:3:634:216:3eff:fe98:c8f1] has quit [Quit: See ya!] 11:07 -!- el3ctrik [~el3ctrik@2a00:1c10:3:634:216:3eff:fe98:c8f1] has joined #freemyipod 11:22 < user890104> TheSeven: is init.emcoreapp supposed to be deleted during emcore installation? because now it's removed on the classics, but it's not on nano2g. 11:22 < user890104> and also: [02:36:10] but on the other side, *any* init app could be wrong version after an emcore update 11:23 < user890104> so they should be deleted i think 11:28 -!- liar [~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 12:03 -!- clustur [~logger@c-98-249-104-118.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #freemyipod 12:03 -!- clustur [~logger@c-98-249-104-118.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:16 -!- ShapeShifter499 [~ShapeShif@c-98-244-33-205.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #freemyipod 12:17 -!- benedikt93 [~benedikt9@unaffiliated/benedikt93] has joined #freemyipod 12:28 -!- [Saint] [~Saint]@101.98.129.152] has joined #freemyipod 12:29 -!- [Saint] is now known as Guest22300 12:30 -!- Guest22300 [~Saint]@101.98.129.152] has quit [Changing host] 12:30 -!- Guest22300 [~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940] has joined #freemyipod 12:30 -!- Guest22300 is now known as release 12:30 -!- release is now known as [Saint] 13:15 < Kuitsi> i'm kind of lost when reading installation instructions. i'm trying to update emcore but i'm lost with all those abbreviations :) 13:17 < Kuitsi> i'm running linux and i have 120 GB classic 13:20 < Kuitsi> i don't need bootstrap-ipodclassic.dfu at all if i can remember how can i access UMSboot (i have seen it before, so i guess i can access it again somehow) 13:21 < Kuitsi> is that right? 13:25 < Farthen> well 13:26 < Farthen> you are currently having an official release installed and want to update to the new one? 13:26 < Farthen> just enter umsboot from the bootloader then 13:27 < Kuitsi> i have some testing version from user890104 13:27 < Farthen> i see 13:27 < Farthen> you should probably just update through umsboot anyways 13:28 < Farthen> it is in the boot menu, just look for it 13:28 < Kuitsi> found it 13:29 < Farthen> ok, great. just boot it and drop the .ubi file 13:29 < Farthen> into the file system 13:29 < Farthen> safely eject and plug your ipod out 13:29 < Farthen> then follow the on-scree instructions 13:29 < Farthen> *on-screen 13:30 -!- liar [~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at] has joined #freemyipod 13:35 < Kuitsi> it's snowing so it works. thanks :) 13:50 -!- soap [~soap@rockbox/staff/soap] has quit [Quit: soap] 14:28 -!- liar [~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 14:33 -!- ShapeShifter499 [~ShapeShif@c-98-244-33-205.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:20 -!- ShapeShifter499 [~ShapeShif@99-204-103-117.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #freemyipod 16:42 -!- ShapeShifter499 [~ShapeShif@99-204-103-117.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:46 * user890104 pings TheSeven 16:47 < user890104> boot->load_from_file(&bootinfo.firmware, &bootinfo.size, false, "/.boot/appleos.bin", 0); 16:47 < user890104> cprintf(2, "0x%08x 0x%08x %d %d\n", &bootinfo.firmware, &bootinfo.size, bootinfo.firmware, bootinfo.size); 16:47 < user890104> Connected to emCORE Debugger v0.2.3 r855 running on iPod nano 2g 16:47 < user890104> Dropped into emCORE console. 16:47 < user890104> 0x08038EB4 0x08038EB8 0 0 16:47 < user890104> but the file is there 16:51 < user890104> file_open returns -7 16:52 < user890104> which is "file not found"... but... 17:24 -!- alberthrocks [~alberthro@pool-108-12-167-103.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:32 < fmibot> New commit by farthen (r856): bootmenu-ipodnano2g: Fix a bug that prevented booting the OF (kudos to user890104) 17:33 < fmibot> r856 build result: All projects green! 17:33 < Farthen> user890104: this one should work :-P 17:36 -!- alberthrocks [~alberthro@pool-108-22-227-158.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has joined #freemyipod 18:03 -!- clustur [~logger@c-98-249-104-118.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #freemyipod 18:03 -!- clustur [~logger@c-98-249-104-118.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:03 < fmibot> New commit by farthen (r857): bootmenu-ipodnano2g-wintertheme: Backport the bugfix from r856 18:04 < fmibot> r857 build result: All projects green! 18:19 < Farthen> any noteboot supporters in here? i need to win an argument 18:19 < Farthen> (you have already been counted, [Saint]) 18:20 < user890104> me too, for removing it as a release format because it's too fragile 18:20 < Farthen> i basically just need one of the people in here to say "i want that noteboot stays because i like installing emcore with a bootnote" 18:20 < Farthen> it's not fragile, it works great if it works 18:20 < Farthen> :-p 18:21 < user890104> it doesn't always work though 18:21 < user890104> so it's not stable, and will never be 18:21 < Farthen> it used to work on of'ed ipods 18:21 < Farthen> that have just been restored 18:21 < Farthen> now on the other hand, it doesn't work at all 18:21 < Farthen> because someone broke it 18:22 * Farthen sends user890104 back to his desk, telling him to find the regression 18:34 -!- Keripo [~Keripo@CPE0022b0d4bdb7-CM001a6680d4fe.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #freemyipod 18:39 * Farthen decides to kill bootnote and postpone fixing it to some time in the future 18:44 -!- soap [~soap@cpe-76-181-78-156.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #freemyipod 18:52 -!- soap [~soap@cpe-76-181-78-156.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:52 -!- soap [~soap@rockbox/staff/soap] has joined #freemyipod 18:53 < fmibot> New commit by farthen (r858): installer-ipodclassic: Remove init.emcoreapp on install again (reverts the change from r835) This is needed for any fastboot user upgrading from the latest release with a CE-ATA iPod classic. 18:54 < fmibot> r858 build result: All projects green! 18:55 < fmibot> New commit by farthen (r859): installer-ipodclassic, bootmenu-ipodnano2g, bootmenu-ipodnano2g-wintertheme: Bump patch version numbers 18:56 < fmibot> r859 build result: All projects green! 18:56 < Farthen> let's release this crap again 19:04 * TheSeven would like to fix this differently 19:06 < user890104> TheSeven: which one? 19:06 < TheSeven> init.emcoreapp 19:06 < TheSeven> and noteboot also needs a fix 19:06 * TheSeven wonders what went wrong with that one 19:07 < user890104> TheSeven: i suspect compiler/optimizer issues 19:07 < user890104> i remember when the exact same source produced a valid bootnote on your machine, and a non-working one on mine 19:08 < user890104> iirc you were building on windows 19:18 < TheSeven> that's why we use a known-working ftlstub binary nowadays 19:20 < user890104> btw i think that "Uninstall emCORE" on n2g should have a confirmation message too 19:35 < Farthen> TheSeven: the proper fix is something entirely different and would involve the api version being set in the app header 19:35 < Farthen> so that emcore knows it itself 19:35 < Farthen> but this fix is known to work 19:35 < Farthen> and it does solve the problem 19:36 < Farthen> if we take two weeks for a hotfix release then we would have dozens of support requests during that time 19:36 < Farthen> i want to get this thing out ASAP to solve the biggest problems 19:37 < Farthen> after that we can still think of a *proper* solution to this reoccurring problem 19:39 -!- Keripo [~Keripo@CPE0022b0d4bdb7-CM001a6680d4fe.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:43 < user890104> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=WCq4iVWF 19:43 < user890104> ubuntu + umsboot + classic 19:43 < Farthen> uname -a 19:44 < user890104> 3.0.0 iirc 19:44 < user890104> i'm rebooting it atm 19:44 < user890104> Linux ubuntu 3.0.0-12-generic #20-Ubuntu SMP Fri Oct 7 14:50:42 UTC 2011 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux 19:45 < Farthen> 3.0.x fixed the ehci bug. i don't know if it was already 3.0.0 or some later version 19:45 < Farthen> user890104: do you want to play the "find the regression" game again? 19:46 < Farthen> or shall we just pretend nothing happened and release this now? 19:46 < user890104> Farthen: for the bootnote? 19:46 < Farthen> for the ehci bug you just showed us 19:47 < user890104> ah, nothing happened :) just showing it fyi 19:47 < user890104> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=pBnWYJcW 19:47 < user890104> works fine 19:48 * Farthen releases r859 19:49 < user890104> we should name these somehow 19:49 < user890104> or more likely number them in a proper way 19:50 < user890104> some general number that can be later used to trace the versions of the components in the release 19:51 < user890104> something descriptive like ipodnano2g-installer0.2.1-iloader0.2.2-uninstaller0.2.0-embios0.1.4-embiosldr0.1.1-umsboot0.1.0-20101103-r250.ipodx, but shorter 19:51 < Farthen> what about naming them after animals and having a table? 19:51 < Farthen> :-p 19:52 < Farthen> oh wait, is "fail" a proper animal? because that is how i would name r855 19:54 < user890104> lol 19:54 < user890104> you want to go the osx/ubuntu naming way? 19:55 < user890104> they are using cats, we could use dog breeds :P 19:55 < benedikt93> go for cars and take "Fiat" ^^ 20:00 < TheSeven> i wouldn't release right now 20:04 < TheSeven> otherwise you'll will be releasing the fix of the fix of the fix in a couple of days 20:07 * user890104 notes that the left/right audio channels on both nano2g and classic are swapped 20:07 < user890104> (used http://www.4horsemen.net/binkster/tracks/track01.zip for testing) 20:08 < TheSeven> and that noteboot doesn't work, and that the confirmation prompt is still missing, and whatever... 20:08 < TheSeven> lots of easy things while we're at it, taking one or two ce-ata support requests (which can be answered by a one-liner) into account 20:10 < TheSeven> and i really would have fixed this init.emcoreapp issue differently 20:10 -!- [Saint] [~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:11 < TheSeven> either by renaming (or completely removing) it, or by bumping the emcoreapp header version in order to add a syscallapi version field 20:11 < TheSeven> so, please fix the above mentioned things and release a fix of the fix when you're done 20:12 < TheSeven> while we're at it, have the just released builds been tested at all? 20:12 < TheSeven> or just compiled and uploaded by Farthen who doesn't have any device? 20:12 < user890104> i compiled and tested all of them on my ipods 20:13 < TheSeven> fine, so you're volunteering as a release managerß 20:15 -!- [Saint] [~Saint]@101.98.129.152] has joined #freemyipod 20:15 -!- [Saint] is now known as Guest11981 20:15 -!- Guest11981 [~Saint]@101.98.129.152] has quit [Changing host] 20:15 -!- Guest11981 [~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940] has joined #freemyipod 20:16 -!- Guest11981 is now known as [Saint] 20:35 < user890104> well, i'm not sure if i can decide when a new release should be done 20:39 -!- TheSeven [~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:03 -!- TheSeven [~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has joined #freemyipod 21:50 -!- TheSeven [~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:50 -!- [7] [~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has joined #freemyipod 21:59 -!- n1s [~n1s@90-224-187-190-no134.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #freemyipod 21:59 -!- n1s [~n1s@90-224-187-190-no134.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Changing host] 21:59 -!- n1s [~n1s@rockbox/developer/n1s] has joined #freemyipod 22:05 -!- n1s [~n1s@rockbox/developer/n1s] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:08 -!- n1s [~n1s@90-224-187-190-no134.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #freemyipod 22:08 -!- n1s [~n1s@90-224-187-190-no134.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Changing host] 22:08 -!- n1s [~n1s@rockbox/developer/n1s] has joined #freemyipod 22:12 -!- [7] [~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:12 -!- TheSeven [~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has joined #freemyipod 22:19 < fmibot> New commit by farthen (r860): emcore/tools/libipodcrypto.py: Clean up the functions that deal with file operations, add some extra exception handling to file operations and properly remove the outfile if an error occurred during the function call. 22:20 < fmibot> r860 build result: All projects green! 22:24 -!- TheSeven [~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:24 -!- TheSeven [~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has joined #freemyipod 22:28 -!- n1s [~n1s@rockbox/developer/n1s] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:29 -!- n1s [~n1s@rockbox/developer/n1s] has joined #freemyipod 23:17 -!- n1s [~n1s@rockbox/developer/n1s] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:19 -!- alberthrocks [~alberthro@pool-108-22-227-158.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:30 -!- soap_ [~soap@cpe-76-181-78-156.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #freemyipod 23:30 -!- soap_ [~soap@cpe-76-181-78-156.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 23:30 -!- soap_ [~soap@rockbox/staff/soap] has joined #freemyipod 23:33 -!- alberthrocks [~alberthro@pool-108-22-226-101.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has joined #freemyipod 23:48 -!- soap [~soap@rockbox/staff/soap] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:48 -!- soap_ is now known as soap 23:49 -!- soap_ [~soap@rockbox/staff/soap] has joined #freemyipod 23:49 -!- soap_ [~soap@rockbox/staff/soap] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:50 -!- [Saint_] [~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940] has joined #freemyipod 23:53 -!- [Saint] [~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:57 -!- benedikt93 [~benedikt9@unaffiliated/benedikt93] has quit [Quit: Bye ;)] --- Log closed Tue Jan 03 00:03:23 2012