[06:04:14] *** Quits: krnlyng (~liar@178.112.194.161.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [06:16:01] *** Joins: krnlyng (~liar@178.112.194.161.wireless.dyn.drei.com) [09:05:54] *** Quits: krnlyng (~liar@178.112.194.161.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [09:23:01] *** Joins: krnlyng (~liar@178.112.194.161.wireless.dyn.drei.com) [09:52:58] *** Joins: slenselink__ (~STeeF@office.hostnetbv.nl) [10:43:53] *** Quits: krnlyng (~liar@178.112.194.161.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [10:57:30] *** Joins: krnlyng (~liar@77.116.118.73.wireless.dyn.drei.com) [11:02:07] *** Quits: krnlyng (~liar@77.116.118.73.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Max SendQ exceeded) [11:05:36] *** Joins: krnlyng (~liar@77.116.118.73.wireless.dyn.drei.com) [12:46:08] *** Quits: [Saint] (~hayden@rockbox/staff/saint) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [12:47:54] *** Joins: [Saint] (~hayden@rockbox/staff/saint) [12:50:14] *** Quits: krnlyng (~liar@77.116.118.73.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [13:02:54] *** Joins: krnlyng (~liar@178.114.26.34.wireless.dyn.drei.com) [14:48:35] *** Quits: krnlyng (~liar@178.114.26.34.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [14:53:07] *** Joins: krnlyng (~liar@178.114.26.34.wireless.dyn.drei.com) [18:16:47] *** Joins: markatlis (2e0b4921@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.11.73.33) [18:19:01] Hi, I was wondering if I can make a suggestion with regards to the code of the dual bootloader on iPod Classic. [18:19:59] With the Patch 1 installation, the bootloader allowed the user to press a single button, like for example the select button, to temporarily change the OS to load from Rockbox to the Apple OS. [18:20:52] It did not allow the iPod to change in a 'permanent' manner to change the Default OS to Apple OS, in such a way as make it a default OS when one restarts the iPod every time. [18:22:44] With the Patch 5 installation, the user now can change the default OS to either Rockbox or Apple OS by pressing 'Select+Right'. However when the iPod is restarted with the Apple OS, it keeps into the Apple OS if it is not changed into the Rockbox firmware. [18:25:01] I think it would be very useful if a bit of code is written to allow the same functionality as was with Patch 1 together with the Patch 5 functionality. This by making it possible to have Rockbox as the Default OS and when loading the bootloader have the user to press any button - say the Select button, and the ipod temporarily loads the Apple OS, so as to allow transfers of files. The user would then reset the iPod and return ba [18:25:20] remembering to have to change the default OS back. [18:27:42] What I am saying is, is it possible to have both functionalities implemented in the bootloader? Pressing a single button like the select button, to temporarily go from the Rockbox firmware to the Apple OS firmware. And also the Select+Right functionality retained as it is, allowing a user to sort of 'permanently' change the default OS to Apple OS or back to Rockbox OS when the user resets his ipod. [18:29:15] really it could be done in any way, it is a matter of decide what, the problem on Classic (AFAIK not in other iPods) is that OF hibernates, when there is a blank screen the user does not know if it is hibernated or not, if he does not press the correct button then he goes to RB directly and need to switch to OF again which takes many time [18:30:31] my presonal think is that will be more confusing for users, and should decide one or other method, other problem of not having default FW is: which firmware enter if user inserts it in a dock? or if the user moves the hold button? [18:32:19] Having the hold button moved during reset is used by rockbox to clear the settings of Rockbox. I had found it useful once when a setting kept the ipod rebooting. [18:34:09] all ipods hibernate [18:34:14] sorry, i am refering to the 'evil' state where the ipod is running OF but is is hibernated, and needs to use the bootloader to go again to OF [18:34:44] Ah, ok. No, that's not there on older ones [18:34:55] gavaerts, but they need to reboot again using the bootloader from hibernated state? [18:35:40] I think the way it was implemented in Patch Set 1 was brilliant. It made a beep sound, and if I wanted to go to the Apple OS I just pressed the 'Select' button. With the new one, it provides the new functionality with changing the default OS possibly to keep it on the Apple OS. I think it is a great step forward too, but it is a pity that the previous 'temporary' functionality was removed. If both functionalities could be impleme [18:35:45] prof_wolfff: it's probably safest to ignore me. I think I'm confusing things :) [18:35:52] that is one problem on classic, the bootloader could not touch the memory SDRAM until he knows that the user is not going to launch OF (or is comming from hibernated state) [18:36:38] no, i really don't know much about old iPods, i suppose things after looking at the target code [18:36:50] On older ipods the OF goes to a low power mode when the user "shuts down" without actually powering off, which tends to confuse people who then don't see a bootloader or rockbox [18:37:43] the problem on using one button when screen is black is that the user can go to the wrong place, and launch OF again takes many seconds (more than 30-40 probably) [18:37:44] The program could wait say 500ms for the user to press a button after reset. If the user presses any button (single button like 'Select') after reset whilst having the Rockbox OS as the Default OS, he will be taken to the Apple OS temporarily, but after a subsequent reset, he is returned back to the Rockbox OS. [18:38:34] well, why not two buttons (as it does actually) instead of one? [18:39:05] To have a sort of temporary option. [18:39:21] With a temporary option I would have rockbox on a permanent basis... [18:39:47] When I want to transfer files I just reset the iPod, press the temporary button to go to the Apple OS... [18:39:48] the bootloader can not notice if it comes from a reboot of from power-off or from hibernate [18:40:27] Wait, so if I am in Apple OS and the iPod hibernates after not being used in a moderate time... [18:40:46] and I press a button to wake it, it loads the bootloader again? [18:41:38] yes, if its i hibernated and you press SELECT the bootloader does not known you previous state [18:41:49] *if it is hibernated* [18:42:10] I have been using so much Rockbox lately, that I have to say, I have not encountered such a situation. :) [18:42:28] i think they call it "deep standby mode" IIRC [18:43:19] I think that functionality is for the best. It is incredible how much they preserve battery power. [18:43:20] RB does not hibernate, it goes power-off, OF goes to "deep standby mode" where all memory data is not lost, so it goes alive so quickly [18:44:08] well, RB sleeps LCD when screen is black, power-off when you use the menu to power-off the device [18:45:12] so the "one button" functionality is not so trivial, and probably confusing and hated by users using OF [18:45:35] but, as i said before, i am disposed to implement what is more useful for user [18:46:00] Could it be implemented only when Rockbox is the default OS only? [18:46:07] *** Quits: PritchardGSD (~dog@CPE-124-180-129-1.lnse4.lon.bigpond.net.au) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [18:46:57] I mean, if I have Apple OS as the default running OS, I wouldn't want to temporarily go into Rockbox. [18:47:08] *** Joins: PritchardGSD (~dog@CPE-124-180-129-1.lnse4.lon.bigpond.net.au) [18:47:32] yes, it is a solution, but again... what is the difference between pressing CENTER+MENU -> CENTER+SELECT, or CENTER+MENU -> SELECT, it is almost the same [18:48:07] sorry again, CENTER+MENU -> CENTER+RIGHT [18:49:26] i think the best way to solve that issues is to fix the USB problems on RB [18:49:47] so people don't need to switch to OF [18:50:15] Hehe, it give that extra functionality that when one wants to just use Rockbox permanently, and has to temporarily go into the Apple OS, he just has to remember to press a button at bootup to go to the Apple OS without having the default OS sort of 'permanently' changed. When ready from the Apple OS file transfer, he just has to reset the iPod and he is brought back to the Rockbox firmware without pressing any other buttons. It s [18:50:24] of Rockbox on one's iPod classic. [18:51:58] ah! just one entry into OF [18:53:26] Yeah but only for when the user opts to have Rockbox as the Default OS in a sort of 'permanent manner'. But please do not remove the functionality that you have built, allowing the user to choose which default OS he wants to have loaded!! It is an incredible feat what you have managed to code there! [18:56:10] It would be having Rockbox as the default OS and by pressing the Select button, you would have a 1 session of Apple OS, without replacing Rockbox as the default OS. [18:57:31] it saves other press then coming back to RB, for me there is no problem, it is only for commodity and could confuse some user that press that key accidentally, i am thinking i.e. on the case where the user powers-off RB and after a couple of days he press select to enter RB, then he will enter OF and after reboot from OF he will enter RB magically, if he tries to switch from OF->RB then he is switch from RB->OF, all this is madn [18:57:31] ess [18:59:15] problem is that bootloader knows nothing about previous state [19:01:26] Hehe, it would be madness for us tinkerers that use rockbox? [19:01:34] :) [19:04:57] I am using the Patch set 1 installer, and I find how it is implemented really great. Even that tiny 'beep' sound, I somehow like it when starting the iPod. Wouldn't you know, I tend to personally prefer the way it is implemented with the temporary option. Best of both worlds on 2 separate iPods with the other having the Patch 5 installation. [19:05:46] Anyway, that was just my 2c opinion. I hoped that you would consider it. Thank-you for your time. [19:06:55] i could also publish a patch (not in the main version) for users who wants that functionality, be sure i will look at that and do it if it is not much work, ATM there are other priorities [19:08:04] Is the beep sound at the startup something you coded in? It didn't beep any more in the Patch 5. [19:09:32] the beep could be activated using the boot menu (devel menu), the boot menu appears if you install a emCORE binary (then there are 3 firmwares to choose and verbose/beep options), i can send you the emCORE binary if you want [19:09:59] Cool, sure I would appreciate it. [19:10:38] please contact me by e-mail and i will send you, and instructions to install it [19:10:59] Ok, I will send you an email to your gmail [19:43:04] *** Quits: krnlyng (~liar@178.114.26.34.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [19:56:58] *** Joins: krnlyng (~liar@77.117.94.57.wireless.dyn.drei.com) [21:19:04] *** Quits: markatlis (2e0b4921@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.11.73.33) (Quit: Page closed)